Which Wind Genny? The panel are invited to steer me in the right direction

UncleAlbert

UncleAlbert

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I am but a simple chap who knows a little about many things but is especially not an expert in electrickery (and the wonders of Amps and Watts etc :)

When sailing away for days I do like to keep the milk cool and the butter hard as well as not letting the sausages and bacon go rancid, so aboard my Centaur I have a Lifeline 150 Ah Leisure Battery whose sole purpose in life is to supply volts to my Halfords cool box to achieve the above.

For the last year this battery was supplied with electricity from a second hand Aerogen 2. Unfortunately earlier this month it shattered its magnets due to centrifugal force, (and probably a non standard repair in the past looking at the amount of Araldite used to bond the bits together), in a 37 knot gust a couple of weeks ago and is therefore only fit for the scrap bin now as parts are no longer available.

So I am in the position of wanting a new wind gen to support the comestibles cooling process!!

I believe are the salient facts to solicit views are:-

Coolbox current draw as per spec sheet 3.3 amps
Likely use of coolbox continuous running would be daytime only. (Too noisy to have running when sleeping).
Would be top up charging when not on boat.
Will not be linked to other House or Start battery circuit/s.

So:-

1.Which product can you vouch for based upon my criteria as above?
2.What views does the panel have in regard to an 11kg rotating (Rutland 914i) mass 3 metres up a pole versus a 6kg (LE300) mass in the same place? Is this important?
3.Any other helpful hints or obscure turbine suppliers please. (Solar panel enthusiast need not apply :cool:)

Ta Unc
 
Surprised you have rejected solar for that pattern of use. Your battery capacity will give you somewhere between 2 and 3 days use without going below 50%. Why would you want a noisy wind generator when a solar panel will ensure that it is topped up when you are away and make a good contribution when cool box is in use. Why don't you use your engine for charging this battery as well?
 
Tranona said:
Surprised you have rejected solar for that pattern of use. Your battery capacity will give you somewhere between 2 and 3 days use without going below 50%. Why would you want a noisy wind generator when a solar panel will ensure that it is topped up when you are away and make a good contribution when cool box is in use. Why don't you use your engine for charging this battery as well?
Click to expand...

Good points and respond.

Your second point first>
I am not confident in altering the existing charging regime to include the 3rd battery but could be persuaded with suitable guidance and instruction. Being a bit paranoid of voltage usage (am I the only one???) I manage the boat running batteries carefully and did not want a forgetful moment to result in no available volts for starting due to cold milk!!!!!

Your first point re Solar. As far as I could determine the installation of one or a couple of 600mm x 600mm would not be enough, but as I say I know little.

Could it be that with more knowledge I might be swayed:encouragement:
 
Tranona said:
Surprised you have rejected solar for that pattern of use. Your battery capacity will give you somewhere between 2 and 3 days use without going below 50%. Why would you want a noisy wind generator when a solar panel will ensure that it is topped up when you are away and make a good contribution when cool box is in use. Why don't you use your engine for charging this battery as well?
Click to expand...

Got to agree with this and I have both solar and windmill.
 
Comments about the noise of wind gens seem to be generalised. We have an Aerogen 4 and upto 30--35 knots it is pretty quiet, beyond 35 knots it can start to get noisy - but these times are few and raw between (as we avoid anchoring in places susceptible to that amount of wind). Others have mentioned in the past their LVMs are not obtrusive (though do not recall ever hearing of anyone with a Aerogen 6).

The noisy wind gens appear to be those with the flexible blades.

We are a bit far away to comment on who is making what - but take comment on noise with a pinch of salt.

Your coolbox seems to have a big draw if that 3.3amps is per hour when running. You might want to consider a better cool box, or the same one with more insulation - it seems a bit of a waste to have an inefficient and not particularly expensive cool box being supplied by a 'gen' system that might cost quite a bit.

Jonathan

edit we too have solar and wind. Solar would meet your needs as you only want to run in daylight. I understand that sometimes the sun does not shine quite as much as here and you need somewhere to install the panels (and that's commonly the big issue - unless you have a cat).
 
Last edited:
+1 for solar panels . If you do decide on a wind genny don't what ever you do get an airbreeze . I'm on my third replacement and that one is going t#ts up already . Utter useless bit of expensive kit.
We are live aboards and have 300w of solar panels which easily keep up with our usage.
Cost wise ? Wind genny and associated bits not far short of 1K ,solar panels 3 x 100w panels from E Bay less than £100 a piece .
 
I now have both S & WG, just wg for about 13 yrs.
Now that the cost of s (and regs) are coming down it is an option well worth considering.
It is a balance between higher cost of wg and the flat area required for s, a frame across the stern is a good solution.
In your case, the simple option is to replace like for like. The 914i is a damned good wg ( I have a 913) but might be a bit ott for your requirements!
Maybe a 504 would fit the bill and if necessary, supliment it with solar. The money you save could be invested in a better fridge arangement, which draws less juce, have you room to install a compressor fridge?
 
J Neeves said:
Your coolbox seems to have a big draw if that 3.3amps is per hour when running. You might want to consider a better cool box, or the same one with more insulation - it seems a bit of a waste to have an inefficient and not particularly expensive cool box being supplied by a 'gen' system that might cost quite a bit.

Jonathan


Agree, Buy a Waeco, it's a proper fridge, & fit a solar panel 60-80W would probably suffice.
This is the first one that popped up in a search for "Solar panel 80W"
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Biard-80W...602?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item258972423a
Click to expand...
 
Wind generators should be banned from marina berthed boats unless the blades are secured with a line - far too noisy. Webasto heaters are not far behind....:eek:
 
UncleAlbert said:
Good points and respond.

Your second point first>
I am not confident in altering the existing charging regime to include the 3rd battery but could be persuaded with suitable guidance and instruction. Being a bit paranoid of voltage usage (am I the only one???) I manage the boat running batteries carefully and did not want a forgetful moment to result in no available volts for starting due to cold milk!!!!!

Your first point re Solar. As far as I could determine the installation of one or a couple of 600mm x 600mm would not be enough, but as I say I know little.

Could it be that with more knowledge I might be swayed:encouragement:
Click to expand...

Presumably you have another house battery and a start battery with a 1,2 both switch. If so then just combine the cool box battery with the house battery to make one big bank and run the cool box off that. Can't see any sense in having a dedicated battery with no means of charging from the engine. If you are worried about ending up not being able to start the engine fit a VSR that automatically splits the charge between the banks giving priority to the engine start.

With the increased capacity even your power hungry coolbox is manageable with a solar panel to top it up, plus your alternator every time you run the engine.
 
titian said:
J Neeves said:
Your coolbox seems to have a big draw if that 3.3amps is per hour when running. You might want to consider a better cool box, or the same one with more insulation - it seems a bit of a waste to have an inefficient and not particularly expensive cool box being supplied by a 'gen' system that might cost quite a bit.

Jonathan


Agree, Buy a Waeco, it's a proper fridge, & fit a solar panel 60-80W would probably suffice.
This is the first one that popped up in a search for "Solar panel 80W"
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Biard-80W...602?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item258972423a
Click to expand...

I struggled with wind (Rutland 913) for years trying to reduce induced resonance in the pole (which in turn generated enormous noise below decks). Rubber isolation mounts, rubber 'separator' halfway down the pole and so forth only 'reduced' the noise. Finally a large shaft anode clamped to the upper part of the pole seemed the single best effect. A lot of effort. Typically at anchor on a nice sunny day there is invariably very little wind to generate any meaningful output - especially when compared to solar.

I installed a solar panel (http://www.cleversolar.co.uk/shop/s...s/flexible-monocrystalline-solar-1094990.html) which I hook up on a temporary basis via a deck socket and it is far more predictable for power generation than wind. I chose these panels as they can flex up to 30 degrees. A proper compressor type coolbox or fridge as mentioned will use 3-4 amps when running but hopefully if the insulation is good an average of 1-2 Amps/hour should be achievable.
Click to expand...
 
I saw a review of wind generators where the 913 came highest in the low winds category. This seems to me to be the important area if you just want to keep batteries topped up on a mooring or supply low currents generally. I don't know how much sailing the OP will be doing with the WG running ? Presumeably they are not very efficient when sailing downwind...?

My boat has no spaces suitable for substantial solar panels so it will be a WG for me too and I'm planning for a Rutland 914i.

Hadn't considered the weight aloft issue and I'm a bit surprised at the differences you quote.

Boo2
 
J Neeves said:
Comments about the noise of wind gens seem to be generalised. We have an Aerogen 4 and upto 30--35 knots it is pretty quiet, beyond 35 knots it can start to get noisy - but these times are few and raw between (as we avoid anchoring in places susceptible to that amount of wind). Others have mentioned in the past their LVMs are not obtrusive (though do not recall ever hearing of anyone with a Aerogen 6).
Click to expand...

+1 about the generalisation. I've been in plenty of anchorages where I couldn't hear my Aerogen 4 (on my ast boat) but was half-deafened by the American thing 100 metres away.
A friend has an Aerogen 6: not very much bigger than the 4, nor noticeably louder, but the output is significantly higher.

But, in general, +2 for solar.
 
Solars are great, when the sun is shining fully on the panel at the height of the day. To get maximum output you need to be able to install them somewhere with no shade. Wind gens are great as they work 24/7 but only if there is any wind and as has been mentioned we all try to minimise wind in an anchorage. But solars work best at right angles to the sun and are the less efficient on a heeled yacht (when there might also be a different shade pattern to when at anchor) They are also not so good at 9am or 4pm (when the sun is lower).

if you have to choose only one system and were in the Med for the summer (or Australia most of the year) then solars would be the best option. If you are in Scotland, or Tasmania then wind would be a better option.

The ideal is both (and to have the wind gen capable of offering water gen for longer passages - but this option is obviously expensive.

There is no right and wrong.

It depends on how much space you have, for the solars, and whether you want that large real estate development on or above your transom. Poles for wind gens are fairly standard. It depends on where you live, or at least where the boat is as to whether wind or sun is the optimum.

But both options, 913 or 100 watts, will run a small fridge and leave power over to keep a laptop, hand held VHF etc charged (and keep batteries charged when you are not on board).

But this is all a bit complicated and expensive when the OP started off simply wanting a small wind gen for a cooler!

Only having 2 battery banks, house and engine is sensible as is charging both whenever the engine is running and making the existing cooler more efficient (or getting a better one) is equally sensible - in fact I'd prioritise these 2 as they might indicate nothing more is needed.

Jonathan
 
I wanted a Aerogen 6 with water mode - but it was not available, which is why we ended up with the Aqua4Aerogen. I did think of having 2 of them, both winds and waters. But never developed the momentum. Our wind/water gen is now 18 years old and still giving stalwart service the solars (or the ones from Solara, lasted about 7 years average, and they were not cheap, and the ones from LVM still going).

Jonathan
 
To all contributors many thanks for loads of stuff for me to consider.

I must be a bit of 'swing voter', in the current parlance, as your offerings are all quite compelling one way and the other.

So my nice existing shiny stainless pole (sans WG) could now be festooned with a pair (of solar panels installed on some sort of rachet swivel so that they can be suitable rotated to obtain the best rays).hmmmmmmm

As I declared in my initial post, being non electrically savvy, I assume that say a 100watt panel at 12 volts would under perfect conditions give 100/12= 8(ish) amps, supposing 50% efficiency then somewhere about 3.5 amps would be the output on a bright sunny day and properly angled. Am I correct in my assumptions?

I will also, as suggested, review the coolbox improvement argument, that really does seem to make sense to reduce the demand rather than overdo the supply.

In regard to coupling the fridge battery to the rest of the charging circuit, that is a job possibly for the next winters lay up, as messing about with the existing (what works and lets me go sailing now) is fraught with trepidation in my mind.

Once again many thanks for all the views.

Unc
 
Panel mounting option without building jungle bar on back of boat

We have four 75w panels mounting in this way. They are on flying leads so can be stored below if we want.
We sail with them like this or if it's rough we sometimes tie them in the vertical position where they act as spray dodgers! We have had panels mounted in this way for 11 years with no mishaps. I don't like jungle bars as they ruin the nice lines of many yachts and create a lot of windage but that's my personal choice. You do see a lot of huge tubular constructions here on mainly American and Canadian yachts here in the Caribbean.
 

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