Which second hand 36-38 footer for 60-100K?

kingfisher

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SWMBO + myself + son 1/2 (not mine, hers, you see) want to move up from our 1973 Sirocco 31 half tonner to something more roomier. We do weekend sails, with the casual long weekend and the annual 3 week summer sail, this year Ostende- London, last year Ostende-Alderney.

Of course one dreams of a Najad/HR/Contest, but rationally they don't fit our cruising habits (like taking your kids to school in a 4x4), and my budget constraints would mean buying an old tatty one.

So far the short list
- 2003 Bavaria 37, in the "floating caravan" category, the old version with the sit-around-the table sofa, rather than the longitudinal version (don't need sea bunks, no night passages)
- 1999 Dufour 36, but not sure about the pullman bed, see previous disussion on 'how do you climb in your bed"
- 1999 Dufour 38, the better sailer, but a tad on the large side
- Arcona 37, in the "hmmm, could stretch the budget a bit"

No-no's
- teak deck: wooden floors are for bedrooms and living rooms, not on top of boats
- furling main
- 2 bathrooms (ffs, there's only 3-4 people on board, how many kazies do you need?)
- Deeper than 1m7 (except for the Arcona)
- older than 1990, I'm tired of trying to repair things quicker than they wear.

Must
- mainsheet and genua winches accessible by helmsman (I know, that should rule out the Bav and the Dufour, but one has to make compromises)


There was a Moody 36cc on the list, which we visited. Small cockpit, ridiculously undersized winches

Already studied and discarded
Jeanneau SO35
Beneteau
Elan (sailed a 33, never again)
X-yachts: too sporty
Dehler: ugly interior, SWMBO veto

Any others we should look at?
 
Which 36-38?

Given the same decision I chose the Jeanneau 36.2. This is very different is hull shape to the 37, and different in construction method to the 35 (the bulkheads are bonded in traditional fashion with no sealant). Three seasons later I have never had any reason to regret my choice.
 
Interesting list of discarded boats! Intrigued to know what about an Elan 33 has put you off the brand altogether.

Only boat I have actually sailed on that list (apart from almost all of the ones you've discarded...) is the Dufour 36, which I wasn't a big fan of (I prefer something more sporty!). Perfectly adequet family cruiser though.
 
I am biased as I have the first boat on your list. The standard draft exceeds your limit and the shoal draft which I have is not such a good performer in heavier weather. Might find it difficult to get one without furling mainsail, but don't let that put you off as it is well matched to the style of boat.

Good points. Very comfortable for living on. Simple and well built. Stands up well to abuse. Easy to sail comfortably. Layout good in harbour. 3 cabin allows more potential storage space but has less lounging space.

Not so good. Bangs around a bit - like many others of similar design. Some fittings a bit cheap (light fittings particularly). Poor standard cooker. Small but functional heads (3 cabin).

Mainsheet is relatively easy to sort. You can take it back to a jammer (or an additional cleat as I have done) on the cockpit coaming. Need to let fly can be minimised by adjusting the mainsail area to suit conditions - easy with furling mainsail.

Had the boat since new. 6 years it earned its keep chartering. Has exceeded my expectations, particularly how well it stood up to 18-20 weeks constant use a year!

Personally, I think it was built in the best era of Bavaria as it retains much of the look and finish of the earlier boats but the economies of mass production.

Right at the bottom end of your budget. You should be able to get a good one for under £60k. I would expect to get around £50k for mine if I were to sell her now. Notice that they are usually higher priced in Europe, particularly France. But if you want a bargain you might be able to get an ex charter boat in Greece for around £45k plus, of course shipping back to N Europe.

Hope this helps
 
I may get shot down in flames for this but have you looked (actually been in) one of the Hunter Legends?
Never gave it a second look until the boat show, wow what a difference down below compared to the Jen & Bens !! the wife now wont look at anything else :(
 
This boat here is the one for you...

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Bavaria-38-Se-2249578/United-Kingdom


I have seen her in the marina and she is a excellent example... 1999 = good solid German Lloyds certified..

Loaded with all the gear.

Personally I would buy this boat, I think this has got to be the deal of the moment!

I agree. If you have that budget a better boat probably than others on the list - and a big jump up from the 37. Even if it does have two loos and exceeds the draft constraint. BTW 1.7m draft is very restrictive in this size range and type.
 
I agree. If you have that budget a better boat probably than others on the list - and a big jump up from the 37. Even if it does have two loos and exceeds the draft constraint. BTW 1.7m draft is very restrictive in this size range and type.

They are really underselling that boat... the extras on their read like a dream list of how you would want a boat set up.... Bow sprit with new Chute, plus all the spinnaker gear, Moveable sidecars, New sails, solar, wind power, new radar/plotter, ais, see-me, even a bleeding burgee thing for the top of the mast complete with halyard!

The only gear missing from my list is a hydrovane...

Really, its turnkey.. must be 30k worth of newish extras on their easy.

As for the two loos... well he could always rip one out and put in a sauna.:D

If I was in the position, I would snap her up!
 
You had a Moody 36cc on the list but say the cockpit was rather small.

Have you checked out the Moody s38. Aft cockpit, table you can sit around, no teak decks, draft 1.5m shoal keel, genoa winches reachable from helm but main not although being a moody it takes a lot of wind to make her heel... Some are available with in-mast furling- I think the one for sale in Spain has. Biased as I have one... but a lovely interior!...

Moody archive
http://www.premiermarinas.com/boats/view/43

Search on somewhere like yachtworld for 'moody 37-39ft 1996-1998'

Any questions - just ask! Rgds Martin.
 
Have a look at a Starlight 35. It's a boat that the testers raved about at the time and indeed since then in second hand boat tests. Originally designed for Sadler by Stephen Jones and then built by Bowman yachts, it is a boaty of the general quality of the Swedes albeit not so woody. Sails brilliantly. Can be had with a lead wing keel of about 4 ft draft or a fin of 6ft. Weight 7.2 tonnes on the IRC cert. Masthead rig. Only disadvantage is that the Sadler style 2 skin construction makes it smaller inside that some other 35/6 footers thoug it does mean good sound deadening and no condensation
 
Interesting list of discarded boats! Intrigued to know what about an Elan 33 has put you off the brand altogether.

Well, we chartered one in Split when I was working in Zagreb, and then sailed around the islands a bit (Hvar and such, nice places BTW, you should try them once ;-).

3 bft and a bit gusty in between the islands: every, and I mean *every* gust, that thing would head up into the wind, even with the wheel at full lock. Remember I'm used to a 1970s halftonner, where you just bury the rail a bit more in gusts, and that is it. It reminded me of the one time my sister convinced me to sit on a horse; that thing just had a mind of its own.
 
Well if you think the 33 is bad... you had better reconsider your choices!!

In my experience the Elan 33 is one of the best modern sailing boats going! (but I think the build is not great..)

Second on the Starlight 35 BTW... Epic!
 
This boat here is the one for you...

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Bavaria-38-Se-2249578/United-Kingdom


I have seen her in the marina and she is a excellent example... 1999 = good solid German Lloyds certified..

Loaded with all the gear.

Personally I would buy this boat, I think this has got to be the deal of the moment!

Nice, but I can get similar ones on Botenbank.nl, so the prices UK/NL aren't that different. Good to know.
http://www.botenbank.nl/nl/zeiljach...lPSZtaW5sZW49Jm1heGxlbj0mcmVmZXJlbmNlQ29kZT0=

But a Bavaria 38 is just too massive. One of our rules is that we still need to be able to enter the port of Goes. Once your boat is so big that you can't get into Goes, what's the point? Also, I think SWMBO would be put off by the size. I don't want to buy the biggest boat I can get. And for the second toilet: I'd take out one of them and turn it into a shower/wet locker.
 
Have a look at a Starlight 35. It's a boat that the testers raved about at the time and indeed since then in second hand boat tests. Originally designed for Sadler by Stephen Jones and then built by Bowman yachts, it is a boaty of the general quality of the Swedes albeit not so woody. Sails brilliantly. Can be had with a lead wing keel of about 4 ft draft or a fin of 6ft. Weight 7.2 tonnes on the IRC cert. Masthead rig. Only disadvantage is that the Sadler style 2 skin construction makes it smaller inside that some other 35/6 footers thoug it does mean good sound deadening and no condensation

Fully agree, but they are rarer than a 17-year old virgin on the Isle of Sheppey. So they'll probably fall out of my price range.
 
Nice, but I can get similar ones on Botenbank.nl, so the prices UK/NL aren't that different. Good to know.
http://www.botenbank.nl/nl/zeiljach...lPSZtaW5sZW49Jm1heGxlbj0mcmVmZXJlbmNlQ29kZT0=

But a Bavaria 38 is just too massive. One of our rules is that we still need to be able to enter the port of Goes. Once your boat is so big that you can't get into Goes, what's the point? Also, I think SWMBO would be put off by the size. I don't want to buy the biggest boat I can get. And for the second toilet: I'd take out one of them and turn it into a shower/wet locker.

Coming down a size, the 36 that replaced my 37 around 2002 will have more than enough space and meet the other criteria.
 
I may get shot down in flames for this but have you looked (actually been in) one of the Hunter Legends?
Never gave it a second look until the boat show, wow what a difference down below compared to the Jen & Bens !! the wife now wont look at anything else :(

Also saw this at SIBS - very well designed down below and seemed to get far more space and usability out of the length than other similar priced boats. Competitively priced as well.

I'd be interested to know how she sails, not entirely sure about the backstay-less rig. The mainsheet arrangement looked a little strange - one of the guys on the stand said that he used the traveller more to adjust the main - not sure about that...
 
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