which rig? Bermudan or gunter?

[dylanwinter]

here are two pictures of the same boat with different rigs

which would be better for sailing around the UK?

http://www.hlmoa.flyer.co.uk/images/mn.jpeg

http://www.hlmoa.org.uk/gallery/14George_Gunn_1.jpg

and would you be interested in an article in a well known yachting magazine about comparing the two rigs?

yours

Just curious of Buckingham

 

[Woodlouse]

That gunter looks more like a high peaked gaff to me. I think the gaff on a gunter rig should be as vertical as possible, like that on a Mirror.

Anyway, the Bermudan will be simpler and should be more efficient.

The only advantage to the gunter is that all the spars will be shorter and easier to stow.

 

[Tranona]

As you know that hull was available with 3 different rigs, each of which has their own pros and cons. None is intrinsically "better" than the others, choice depends on what your priorities are and probably now what is available. Suspect there are very few of the fractional bermudan boats about.

 

[fergie_mac66]

gunter so easy to drop the mast in a Tabernacle .
Re gunter pic ,looks like the wire slide on his gaff needs a few turns on the bottlescrew !

 

[davidej]

Around here, there is a boat with twin Junk rigged sails, which, I beleive is the same hull.

Probably easier to handle that either of your alternatives but, if I were trying to get somewhere, I would choose the bermudan every time.

 

[Salty John]

For sailing around the UK I'd go for the simplicity of the Bermudian rig. But if you keep turning left and want to drop the rig frequently the gunter has some advantages.
Also, if you intend to make your own rig then the gunter is easier because it uses smaller bits of wood.
And if you intend to trail it a lot you'll avoid the overhang.
A bit like a two piece snooker cue - if you want to take it out of the house it's useful, otherwise why bother.
Nice looking boat, whatever the rig.

 

[prv]

That gunter looks more like a high peaked gaff to me.

Agree. If I had seen that picture on its own, I'd have said "gaff", not "gunter". Gunter should have the yard as nearly parallel to the mast as possible.

Pete

 

[Poignard]

Agree. If I had seen that picture on its own, I'd have said "gaff", not "gunter". Gunter should have the yard as nearly parallel to the mast as possible.

Pete

+1

In fact the yard should be practically an extension of the mast.

 

[dylanwinter]

you say potato

well, not sure when a high peaked gaff becomes a gunter

it looks like a slack gunter to me

one other advantage with the gunter/gaff/potato/tomato
....

the short spars will certainly make dropping the rig easier and will avoid the overhang -

thereby making the boat look a bit smaller on the road


when dropping it to go under bridges then that bermudan will have one heck of a stern overhang - ideal for getting caught in lock gates etc

However, it will stand a better chance of reaching over the trees to catch some breeze

The shortness of the spars will make dropping and stowing the rig easier

I can reduce the windage by dropping the gaff down low and that will help me motoring when I need to get out of trouble

and...

I assume...

the trad rig will look better on the DVD covers - or will it?

Dylan

meantime..... anyone want to buy a slug

 

[prv]

The sail appears to be setting correctly, though, so it seems that boat is meant to be rigged like that. I'd say it was gaff-rigged; perhaps they didn't want the image of canvas smocks and baggywrinkle so sold it as "gunter".

Pete

 

[prv]

the trad rig will look better on the DVD covers - or will it?

I think so.

More flexible for your various rig shenanigans.

Go for it.

Pete

 

[lotusman]

For serious coastal sailing thought needs to be given to reefing a gunter. As reefs are taken in there is a benefit of reducing height of weight and windage aloft but the difficulty of keeping yard vertical and close to mast increases.

Two ways of keeping it clost to mast - have a higher attachment point further up yard, or slide the sail down the yard. Spoils the advantage of reduced top hamper. Both suitable for a mirror dinghy, but not a cruiser.

Agree with other comments about appearance gaff/gunter. Bolger (100 Small Boat Rigs) says gunter has only one halyard, gaff has two.

For road transport and sheltered short trips I'd go with gunter, otherwise bermudan. Or, in reality go with overall condition and availability

 

[dylanwinter]

For serious coastal sailing thought needs to be given to reefing a gunter. As reefs are taken in there is a benefit of reducing height of weight and windage aloft but the difficulty of keeping yard vertical and close to mast increases.

Two ways of keeping it clost to mast - have a higher attachment point further up yard, or slide the sail down the yard. Spoils the advantage of reduced top hamper. Both suitable for a mirror dinghy, but not a cruiser.

Agree with other comments about appearance gaff/gunter. Bolger (100 Small Boat Rigs) says gunter has only one halyard, gaff has two.

For road transport and sheltered short trips I'd go with gunter, otherwise bermudan. Or, in reality go with overall condition and availability

great point about the higher attachment

that should be easy enough to do with a snatch block

D

 

[lotusman]

yes, snatch block would work and saves the risk of detaching halliard, but don't like the thought of wrestling with a yard in reefing conditions at sea - ok as a quick set-up before departure though

 

[BobPrell]

That gunter looks more like a high peaked gaff to me. I think the gaff on a gunter rig should be as vertical as possible, like that on a Mirror.
.

I agree. The sail looks nicely set, no excessive creases or boom droop.
There is something called a sliding gunter which keeps the gaff close and parallel. Uffa Fox had it on at least one of his designs.

Anyway, the Bermudan will be simpler and should be more efficient.
.

Everybody is in favour of efficiency. For some reason bermudan fans get away with claiming efficiency without saying what resource they are efficient with, and what they trade off for that.

The only advantage to the gunter is that all the spars will be shorter and easier to stow.

So the gunter is efficient with space. It trades off pointing ability.

 

[dylanwinter]

reef early

yes, snatch block would work and saves the risk of detaching halliard, but don't like the thought of wrestling with a yard in reefing conditions at sea - ok as a quick set-up before departure though

I am a very conservative sailor

I try to reef before I get into trouble

if it gets that bad then I will just drop the lot, turn on thet tillerpilot and start the engine

not a great one for messing with flogging canvas

Dylan

 

[fergie_mac66]

my westerly is a sliding gunter with 2 halyards very easy to reef.

 

[prv]

For serious coastal sailing thought needs to be given to reefing a gunter. As reefs are taken in there is a benefit of reducing height of weight and windage aloft but the difficulty of keeping yard vertical and close to mast increases.

Two ways of keeping it clost to mast - have a higher attachment point further up yard, or slide the sail down the yard.

With my gaff, the "higher attachment point" works automatically; the traveller slides up the gaff span. Imagine in Dylan's picture the wire along the yard sliding down through the tackle near the masthead. I guess this only works if you have a separate throat halyard though, which this boat may not.

Pete

 

[interloper]

A Westerly Centaur is only available with a Bermudan rig.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I had a Minstrel and the makers say it is a sliding gunter (they might be wrong though).I fitted reefing to mine with lines through lower cringles back to the cockpit just like a bermudam rig.Ease the line attached to the span,spar slides down mast,sheet in reefing lines,tighten up, away you go.