Which new batteries?

[NormanS]

I am planning to renew my domestic battery bank. At present I have 3 off 170ah sealed Platinum Marine Plus, which have so far given six years service. The sizes of these are approximately 510 x 220 x220mm, and the new ones would have to be about the same.

I am tempted by Alpha Batteries 12v 190ah Xplorer, admittedly because of the price and free delivery, but I'm sure that the wealth of detailed knowledge and practical experience here can give me some guidance.

Thanks in advance.

 

[peteK]

Make sure you are able to lift it a 190ah battery would be quite heavy.

 

[Tranona]

If the 190ah are physically the same size and weight as your 170 then they are likely to have thinner plates and theoretically less tolerant of the sort of discharge cycles of a domestic bank.

 

[KellysEye]

Domestic batteries should be deep cycle as used in golf carts, Trojan is the most popular.

 

[Plevier]

If the 190ah are physically the same size and weight as your 170 then they are likely to have thinner plates and theoretically less tolerant of the sort of discharge cycles of a domestic bank.

Not only that, but Alpha are pulling an old trick to look bigger - the 190Ah is at 100hr rate, at the normal 20hr rate they are 170Ah. See http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/boat-batteries/190-ah-xplorer-leisure-battery/ and they don't say at what temperature that is or to what end voltage. Weight is given as 42kg. They do call it a leisure battery not a deep cycle battery - not that there is any standard definition for either term.

As regards the Platinum Plus, I haven't found any detail on it, or a price. As with Alpha, it's just a distributor's brand name, no way of knowing who makes it. Platinum's website mentions 120 cycles at 50% DoD which is not impressive.

Impossible to tell which is better!

PS Alpha also offer the Banner leisure battery which they call 195Ah but its 20hr rating is 180Ah. That also weighs 42kg. Banner are generally well regarded. I am a little surprised it is no heavier than the Xplorer and costs £90 more.

The ex battery industry cynic in me says that these are all basically standard truck batteries, maybe with improved separation, and probably little to choose between them.

 

[gjgm]

Domestic batteries should be deep cycle as used in golf carts, Trojan is the most popular.

There was a battery chemist on one of the other forums a year or so ago who, if I understood, suggested that above about 130ah there is enough lead in the plates not to make much difference between deep and leisure. I dare say there were some caveats, but interesting.

 

[Minchsailor]

I bit the bullet this year and got a pair of Trojan 6V heavy duty deep cycle. Pricey, but well pleased with the performance so far, and I spent 5 months on the boat, so they got plenty of use.

 

[geem]

Not only that, but Alpha are pulling an old trick to look bigger - the 190Ah is at 100hr rate, at the normal 20hr rate they are 170Ah. See http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/boat-batteries/190-ah-xplorer-leisure-battery/ and they don't say at what temperature that is or to what end voltage. Weight is given as 42kg. They do call it a leisure battery not a deep cycle battery - not that there is any standard definition for either term.

As regards the Platinum Plus, I haven't found any detail on it, or a price. As with Alpha, it's just a distributor's brand name, no way of knowing who makes it. Platinum's website mentions 120 cycles at 50% DoD which is not impressive.

Impossible to tell which is better!

PS Alpha also offer the Banner leisure battery which they call 195Ah but its 20hr rating is 180Ah. That also weighs 42kg. Banner are generally well regarded. I am a little surprised it is no heavier than the Xplorer and costs £90 more.

The ex battery industry cynic in me says that these are all basically standard truck batteries, maybe with improved separation, and probably little to choose between them.

We took the decision to buy four truck batteries that weigh a hefty 65kg each. We really dont discharge much with lots of solar onboard. Time will tell if it was the correct decision or not. I took the view I didnt need deep cycle if I dont deep cycle them! We rarely see voltage below 12.7v in the morning with the fridge and anchor light running over night

 

[NormanS]

Thanks for all the useful comments. Much as I would like to fit Trojans or similar, the stowage (and probably the cost) rules that out. Has anyone any experience, good or bad, with Varta?

 

[robertj]

word of warning i bought from Alpha Batteries which i needed desperately. I was just heading for france and when they arrived they were 12.1v and 12.2v. Not a good start I thought contacted them heard nothing so charged them and headed off.
What about Tanya Batteries?
I wouldn't buy from Alpha again.

 

[neil_s]

My Exide engine start battery just stopped working after only 15 years service. I couldn't rise to the cost of another Exide, but the Hankook replacement I ordered from Battery Megastore arrived well packed and indicating 12.7 volts.

 

[NormanS]

My Exide engine start battery just stopped working after only 15 years service. I couldn't rise to the cost of another Exide, but the Hankook replacement I ordered from Battery Megastore arrived well packed and indicating 12.7 volts.

I know the feeling! My engine start battery just suddenly died a few weeks ago. We've had the boat now for slightly over eleven years, and I don't know how old the battery was then. Like you, I got a replacement Hankook from Battery Megastore, and price, delivery, and battery, were all good. The domestic bank is a much bigger issue.

 

[wrr]

The National Caravan Council has a useful website for the NCC Verified Leisure Battery Scheme with comparisons of batteries, including cycling capacity, see: http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

 

[sailaboutvic]

There no doubt 6V golf battery are the way to go , but at what price , I alway brought 12v HD battery's around the £100 touch , last lot lasted 5 years . And we are full time liveaboard , on anchor 9 month each year.
6V battery's would have to last me at less 15 years just to be cost efficient and match up to my cheap HD battery's .

 

[Strolls]

Not only that, but Alpha are pulling an old trick to look bigger - the 190Ah is at 100hr rate, at the normal 20hr rate they are 170Ah. See http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/boat-batteries/190-ah-xplorer-leisure-battery/ .

Looking at the specs on that page, and comparing with the Trojan T-105, they seem to be the same capacity per kg.

So I would assume they're using the same technology and getting the same results.

 

[macd]

Looking at the specs on that page, and comparing with the Trojan T-105, they seem to be the same capacity per kg.

So I would assume they're using the same technology and getting the same results.

In terms of simple arithmetic, that's approximately true (actually 4Ah per kg for doubled up T105s, 4.5Ah per kg for the Xplorers).

But we can deduce little regarding your assumption of similar technology. Trojans are lead-antimony, which generally has better deep cycle characteristics. The link is utterly mute on the metallurgy of the Xplorers. My suspicion is they're probably lead-calcium. The cynic in me (granted far less informed than the one in plevier) suggests that if Xplorers could manage even 500 lifetime cycles, they'd be bragging about it. They don't. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[superheat6k]

I am planning to renew my domestic battery bank. At present I have 3 off 170ah sealed Platinum Marine Plus, which have so far given six years service. The sizes of these are approximately 510 x 220 x220mm, and the new ones would have to be about the same.

I am tempted by Alpha Batteries 12v 190ah Xplorer, admittedly because of the price and free delivery, but I'm sure that the wealth of detailed knowledge and practical experience here can give me some guidance.

Thanks in advance.

Why do you feel the need to replace them ?

If the Specific Gravities are all good and the terminal voltage OK they could have decent life left in them.

Worthwhile trying Barden near Fareham, and say you are trade. This can make a big difference to price.

 

[Plevier]

Looking at the specs on that page, and comparing with the Trojan T-105, they seem to be the same capacity per kg.

So I would assume they're using the same technology and getting the same results.

Your first point is fair. I hadn't checked that and am a bit surprised, although when I saw 42kg my instant reaction was that it was a decent weight. However I would have guessed the T-105s would be heavier per Ah.
Your second point doesn't follow!
The most important single factor for cycle life in general is plate thickness. Other factors include the plate separators and the alloy used (as macd says).
Plate thickness hugely affects high rate performance, thin plates performing better because acid diffusion is quicker. At the 20hr rate diffusion is not a problem for any normal plate thickness, so you don't see a big capacity difference related to plate thickness.
Smallish car batteries whose main job is starting often have plates around 1mm thick, to get good high rate performance and keep the cost and weight down. If those plates are used in a "leisure" battery of say 80Ah they won't take much cycling.
By the time you get up to 180Ah big truck stuff like we're talking about here, they need to cope with other duties as well - e.g. TV and Webaspacher for driver overnighting in cab - and have a decent life and reliability and cost is less important. They are not so dedicated just to starting. It wouldn't surprise me if the plates are up to 3mm thick but I'm guessing a bit. Put plates like that in a "leisure" battery and you could get quite a decent life. My guess at thickness for the T-105 plates would be around 4mm but I don't know for sure. They are intended for arduous cycling in floor sweepers etc.
It's unlikely anyone would make different plates for leisure batteries, they will use existing car/truck plates depending on size. So the bigger the battery the more likely it is to give reasonable life.
The Alpha, Platinum and Banner and many others will be very similar in internal design. There may be differences in quality. They may come from the same production line, you just don't know! Re-badging is rife. I find it hard to justify the price difference between Alpha and Banner in this particular case. If you buy a Platinum now, it may be completely different from a 6 year old one and be made in a different factory or country!
It's all bit of a lottery.

 

[NormanS]

Thanks to all for your input.
The decision doesn't have to be made for another month. Plevier's final comment confirms my own suspicion, "It's all a bit of a lottery".

 

[mogmog2]

What about Tanya Batteries?.

I bought an Exide car battery from Tayna & it turned up the next day. First order from them, after a number of car forumites lauded them. No complaints there. Will definitely be on my shortlist when I next need any new battery.