Which liferaft ?

[Chris_G]

One of my first posts so please be gentle ;-) I'm about to take the plunge & buy a 6 man liferaft for our Sigma 33, has anyone got any advice or experience of what models are best, I'm currently thinking of an ISO/ISAF raft like the Seago ? But then should I go for a cannister or valise ? All thoughts and comments gratefully received.
Chris.

 

[ChrisE]

Where are you planning to sail? If it's coastal then not such a big decision, if seriously offshore then Viking or similar.

Personally, I prefer cannister in a cage, on the stern as it is the easiest place to deploy from (just open the cage and drop rather than lugging off coach roof). Others don't agree and I'm sure they'll let you know why.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Wrestled with this, at the London Boat Show.

In the end decided on one of the more expensive options (Avon) on the basis that having examined everything on show there, it looked the one you'd prefer to bob around in, when the fertiliser hits the aircon. And canister, coz when it does go titzup, you don't want to be fiddling around in a locker or trying to heave a raft up from below.

Apropos price, the difference between the cheapest and the one we chose was approx £600. Amortised over the expected 12 (or more) years lifespan of the raft, that's an extra £1 a week for top notch.

 

[PIGLETSDREAM]

Difficult choice, first question, why 6, is that your normal tally on board Never having stepped down into one in anger, just in a pool, I seem to recall the instructor advising quite strongly that better to have to many people in a raft than not enough. Obviously not to excess. If you reguarly sail with 2/3 people and god forbid that you find yourself needing the raft, the stability and comfort of the raft is compromised if you are in a 6 man. Valise or canister, depends on where you wish to store it. Obviously valise can be put down below and away from tea leaves when not on board, when on the move can be tied under seat in your yacht. Canister can be fitted to the pushpit or more often to cabin roof under boom. The difference in price can be as much as 100% and this depends on its rating. One of the mags recently did a budget test and the results are quite interesting. As with all of these things, where are you going to sail with how many and when and how big is your budget.

 

[Chris_G]

Thanks Chris & Ken - Ken, I presume you got the Avon Ocean one ? I'm not planning on venturing too far mostly France but maybe going to the Med next year so would assume that would be the one ? I do tend to agree with you that spending money on decent safety kit is worthwhile so don't really want to scimp on something so vital.

 

[Cornishman]

I won't recommend any particular make, but would like to support others here when suggesting a canister (flatpack) type. I also agree that getting one bigger than necessary is a waste of money and also leads to instability if not filled. Remember that most liferafts are designed to carry 200% of the nominated number.
Consider a hydrostatic release unit (HRU) too. They are now very reliable and save you having to drag the darned thing to the rail and tossing it over the side at a time when you are probably struggling with other things.
Valises are not watertight and have to be kept in a dry locker all the time.

 

[Chris_G]

Good advice sounds sensible from a stability point of view, six of us normally sail but that includes four children so allowing for an extra pair of hands in the 7th berth I thought 6 would be OK ? Budget - mmmm - but then should you just try and find the money ? I'd never forgive myself if we went with something cheap and end up loosing someone...

 

[Jonny_H]

My boat came with an XM liferaft. When I had it serviced I decided to put it into a canister (from a valise where it was kept under the chart table!?) and rail mount it (for reasons as above).

When it was serviced (first time since new) there were lots of bits missing! (Drogue, knife, bailer!). This was quite shocking as the raft had never been used.

Not sure if mine was a one off, but the people who serviced it said they regularly encounter this sort of thing with liferafts at the 'lower' end of the market. If I was buying new I would def go for a good raft (Avon etc).

As for size - you need to go on the normal crew, as said above a 6 man raft with 2 or 3 people in can be dangerous as the crew will be thrown around within it and there isn't enough weight to keep it the right way up in severe conditions!

Jonny

 

[shamrock]

Have you done the survival course? Actually getting into the thing and then trying to right a flipped one taught us a lot.

We're going across the Atlantic, then cruising with the kids, so a serious raft was always needed, but I've gone one step further and bought a self-righting DSB raft with lots of features like entry ramp instead of ladder and so on. It's over 2 grand, which is a lot of money and I would have bought a lower spec one if only coastal / cross channel, but you've said Med so maybe that includes Biscay.

I just never want to be sitting in it thinking 'if only I'd spent a bit more', or worse, kicking the wife and kids out of an upside down one saying 'just hang on to it whilst I tip it the right way up - again - in this Force 9'

Got the HRU as well since that's only 50 quid. that's only in case we sink so fast we can't release it ourselves but in all other circumstances you bypass the HRU.

You're East Coast, so talk to Graham at Suffolk Sailing for a wealth of experience and advice - especially consider servicing intervals / costs as well as up front purchase price.

 

[Ruffles]

Doesn't the Sigma 33 have dedicated life raft stowage under a removable bridgedeck? The class rules seem to suggest so. A 4 man valise would seem to be the way to go. Note that different manufacturers produce different shaped valise and not all will fit the slot.

 

[Chris_G]

It does and that was my original plan but I'm just concerned about cramming a 6 man valise into the space and then bearing Cornishman's comment about valises & water would it be OK left out in the wet ? Have any Sigma owners done this before - sounds like a conversation with Suffolk Sailing could be in order - thanks to everyone for the help....

 

[CPD]

Having done sea survival recently, my advice would be to look realistically at likely persons on board ie 4 or 6. many good reasons why the fit should be good. No particular advice re make or mounting, so long as tyou are familiar with how to dismount it in a hurry !. good luck.

 

[Erre]

Once, when asked to deliver a (c.42' - I forget), Hillyard ketch from Greece to the UK and literally got broken up in F12's in the Ionian (3 other yachts suffered similar fates in that blow), I have had to use a life raft in anger (or controlled fear actually).

Initially on arriving at teh vessel, the owner had the raft (canister packed) stowed away amongst various detritus in the forcastle. I distinctly remember him laughing at me digging it out and lashing it to the grab rails on the deck house. By the way, he was flying back to Blighty!

Cutting a long story VERY short, when it came time to deploy the life raft, despite having secured it with release knots, I cut the securing lines (Old wooden boat man - I always carry a good knife - this one from Des Pawson), and heaved the raft into the oggin. Myself and a colleague then pulled on the (secured) lanyard for what seemed like ages before it inflated upside down!

I appreciate teh benefits of a Viking (which this was obviously not), but I assure you that the amount of adrenalin flowing at the time meant that literally picking this thing up by the lanyard and tossing it about until it landed right side up was a doddle!

The message from me therefore is - go for above deck canister. Anything else might cross an item off teh tick list but it represents a greater gamble with you and your crew-mates lives. I would also suggest hydrostatic releases with teh lanyard made firm on a strong point.

Buy the way, the three of us got aboard okay and cut the lanyard with the self-same knife and were picked up eventually by an Italian helicopter and flown to Brindisi airbase. There is much more to this tale that is very, very amusing (on hindsight). If you ever have the misfortune to meet me in a harbour bar, I shall tell all!.

Sorry for the indulgence but this is a valid real experience and has taught me much about life raft use.

 

[fisherman]

I'm sure there are many on here who would be genuinely interested to read an account of your experience if you could find the time to put it together.

 

[Erre]

Thanks Fisherman but I am sure that it would bore the hell out of fellow forumites unless aided by strong drink!

One other bit of safety advice to those just starting out or with a new purchase, if I may be so presumptuous..
This vessels name was a ridiculously hard to pronounce 4 syllables! ( I won't name the vessel here lest I transgress).

If you are very tired, a bitty concerned for your survival and that of your craft, cold, wet, slightly seasick, breaking up and desperately trying to retain VHF contact with a Greek tanker before the batteries go under, you want a short 1 syllable name that is very easy to spell phonetically. I always sigh when I see someone's pride and joy go past with a nonsense name and pray that they never have to use it in such circumstances.

Your vessel's name has safety considerations too.

 

[snorkmaiden]

Viking, hire, grab bag, EPIRB
Having hired last year because we couldn' t make up our minds, we went through many - probably most of the considerations mentioned in the recent postings. We too decided not to cut corners and bought a self-righting Viking liefraft. We have a Sadler 29, now in Brittany and we are thinking of crossing to the Spanish Rias next year. We already use the availabledeck space with a Tinker dinghy, so we have to use the life raft well in the cockpit for the valise, otherwise we'd have cannister.
It's worth noting that hire is an option, but if you're crossing the channel, be aware that the raft has to be returned to the UK. So far as we could find, there is no company with continental bases. I had heard that liferafts were only allowed on ferries with permission of the skipper. I smuggled mine aboard disguised as a holdall. When I brought ours down this year I called Brittany ferries and was told that there was no problem - but I was not sure that the people on the end of the phone really knew what they (or I) was talking about. At the ferry port you will be asked if you are carrying gas cylinders, which the liferaft contains.
Don't forget to consider your own grab bag. Offshore I would be prepared to take essentials - knife, repair kit, water... whatever YOU think you need. In other words assume nothing about the contents. Don't forget the warm clothes.
We also decided not to go quite to the top of the range in order to buy a personal EPIRB. Friends of ours who sail 2-handed wear one when alone on deck at night. In bad conditions, I would do the same.
JJ

 

[mhouse]

I second visiting Suffolk Sailing.
Its worth buying a make that can be serviced locally. Mine was cheap but has to be sent down to the south coast for service.

 

[jb2006]

We have a Lifeguard Forties A - similar to the new Forties ISAF - seems very good

 

[john_morris_uk]

[ QUOTE ]
It does and that was my original plan but I'm just concerned about cramming a 6 man valise into the space and then bearing Cornishman's comment about valises & water would it be OK left out in the wet ? Have any Sigma owners done this before - sounds like a conversation with Suffolk Sailing could be in order - thanks to everyone for the help....

[/ QUOTE ]When we had a Sigma 33 we had a Plastimo 6 man liferaft in a valise fitted under the bridge deck stowage space. I fitted a panel to make it an enclosed (but still drained) stowage area. We also had the grab bag in the same space when we were at sea.

The liferaft was subsequently repacked into a canister for our current boat.

 

[snorkmaiden]

Liferaft Hire FRANCE

It is possible to rent a liferaft in La Rochelle - just found a leaflet.
ad.17@wanadoo.fr
+33 (0)5 46 45 49 49
200 - 300€ per month depending on type.