Which life raft?
- Thread starter xyachtdave
- Start date
ithet
Well-Known Member
I would suggest there are three main criterion for choosing a liferaft - loading aboad, loading aboard and loading aboard. In other words, how easy is it to get in it particularily from the water (including ease for a child). It might not always be possible to step straight on. If you are stuck in the briny unable to get in all other features are irrelevant.
I have heard the following statistics quoted but do not know if they are true or not - perhaps others can shed some light? -
50% of people who leave a yacht to get in a liferaft - don't.
There has only been one case of liferaft occupancy greater than 12hrs in UK waters in the last 10 years (the Seago one).
I have heard the following statistics quoted but do not know if they are true or not - perhaps others can shed some light? -
50% of people who leave a yacht to get in a liferaft - don't.
There has only been one case of liferaft occupancy greater than 12hrs in UK waters in the last 10 years (the Seago one).
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes, my experience was a simulated ditching - not fun!
Yes, you are right - buy the cheapest best looking raft canister and forget about it. Because of coding requirements I have an 8 man Ocean canister which just about fills one locker. Looks impressive, but I have no idea how the two of us would deploy it - not that I intend ever to get into a situation where I might have to - too much of a coward and now I am drawing my pensions want to live long enough to get my money back.
Yes, you are right - buy the cheapest best looking raft canister and forget about it. Because of coding requirements I have an 8 man Ocean canister which just about fills one locker. Looks impressive, but I have no idea how the two of us would deploy it - not that I intend ever to get into a situation where I might have to - too much of a coward and now I am drawing my pensions want to live long enough to get my money back.
VO5
Well-Known Member
That's strange. They are fitted with short rope ladders to assist in clambering aboard if in the drink.
And if they are not, they jolly well should be.
ithet
Well-Known Member
Exactly, some ladders would appear to be better than others - most look rather flimsy. Some rafts also have extra devices that are claimed to aid entry.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Not exactly. The cheap ones have a loop or two of webbing as a ladder, which will push under the raft when you put any weight on it, meaning you need lots arm and shoulder strength to pull yourself in (hence the recommendation that the strongest survivor should get in first, so that he or she can help pull the weaker ones in).
Better rafts have fabric or inflated 'door steps' which you can slide yourself onto before entering the raft proper so that the step is supporting part of your weight, and are much easier to use.
Like here:
Last edited:
SailBobSquarePants
Well-Known Member
THAT is the most helpful post I have read all day - I have a large-ish 6 man canister on deck that is unsightly and too big, and we only usually sail with 2 (and one of us VERY light). But I can mount a 4 person canister on my stern, and probably be safer to boot...
xyachtdave
Well-Known Member
Not exactly. The cheap ones have a loop or two of webbing as a ladder, which will push under the raft when you put any weight on it, meaning you need lots arm and shoulder strength to pull yourself in (hence the recommendation that the strongest survivor should get in first, so that he or she can help pull the weaker ones in).
Better rafts have fabric or inflated 'door steps' which you can slide yourself onto before entering the raft proper so that the step is supporting part of your weight, and are much easier to use.
Like here:
This photo makes me wonder about buying one at all. Exactly the sort of conditions you won't be needing it in and it still looks difficult to board. My Honda dinghy looks more seaworthy than that thing.......
So to re cap a Givens is the money no object buy, Zodiac good for a grand and the others OK to lob in the locker or bolt on the transom and will make you feel much better, although you may wish you had brassed up for the Givens in the event of a crisis!
It makes me wonder whether a dry suit for each crew member would be more useful, slightly easier to get in to and in the event of MOB could be quite useful, if you happen to be wearing it.......
VO5
Well-Known Member
That is correct.
And the reason being that if all occupants are concentated in one corner a wave can overturn it as the ballast pockets are so distributed in the assumption that the occupants will remain evenly (or as evenly as possible) distributed within.
This assumption for me from the first minute seemed implausible.
I think shipwrecked occupants of a liferaft who are cold, wet and frightened, will have a tendency, a natural human response, to huddle together, to seek warmth and reassurance.
I further think, that huddling is extremely unlikely to take place in the centre of the liferaft floor and to be most likely to occur around the edge of the floor, butressed against the flotation chamber.
The temptation for occupants to huddle on the perimeter of the floor is additionally stimulated by the presence of lanyards affixed therein.
Therefore, I reasoned that a liferaft unevenly weighted and not sufficiently anchored would be at risk of being overturned.
I began to look for a self righting liferaft manufacturer that could present a convincing argument as to how their product could right itself without any occupant / occupants having to deploy into the sea to assist the raft to right itself.
I found Givens....never mind the price...their solution of ballasting convinced me absolutely.
I further found out that four sailors had been through the eye of a hurricane in one of their rafts and survived, and that their rafts have saved 4oo lives.
That was enough for me, I bought it straight away.
I have no commercial interest whatsoever, but my interest is the well being and safety of all who sail with me, and my further interest is to disseminate valuable information to fellow sailors as and when necessary.
ean_p
Well-Known Member
Mmmmm a message from RFD that may put the stability / occupant dilemma in a different light as it appears for Solas that the rafts have to be stable in isolation........
Thorough testing is carried out on prototype raft designs put forward for SoLaS compliance approval, one of which is a ‘stability test’. This test requires the occupants to
The “Stability Test” is described in the LSA Cose as follows:
Part 1, Section 5.9:
“5.9.1. The number of persons for which the life raft is to be approved should be accommodated on one side and then at one end and in each case the freeboard should be recorded. Under these conditions the freeboard should be such that there is no danger of the life raft being swamped. Each freeboard measurement should be taken from the waterline to the top surface of the uppermost buoyancy tube at its lowest point.”
“5.9.2. The stability of the life raft during boarding may be ascertained as follows; two persons, each wearing approved lifejackets, should board the empty life raft. It should then be demonstrated that the two persons in the life raft can readily assist from the water a third person who is required to feign unconsciousness. The third person must have his back towards the entrance so that he cannot assist the rescuers. It should be demonstrated that the water pockets adequately counteract the upsetting moment on the life raft and there is no danger of the life raft capsizing.”
The above legislation has also been applied to the ‘Non-SoLaS’ 4 Person life raft without issue.
The RFD Beaufort Marine life raft range is SoLaS compliant. We have therefore been able to demonstrate compliance with the above legislation.
The stability generated by the design and positioning of the water pockets on the underside of the raft coupled with the low profile canopy/arch tube construction provides sufficient stability regardless of the number of occupants (up to maximum).
Please understand that I can only comment on the RFD Beaufort/Survitec Group product range!
Thorough testing is carried out on prototype raft designs put forward for SoLaS compliance approval, one of which is a ‘stability test’. This test requires the occupants to
The “Stability Test” is described in the LSA Cose as follows:
Part 1, Section 5.9:
“5.9.1. The number of persons for which the life raft is to be approved should be accommodated on one side and then at one end and in each case the freeboard should be recorded. Under these conditions the freeboard should be such that there is no danger of the life raft being swamped. Each freeboard measurement should be taken from the waterline to the top surface of the uppermost buoyancy tube at its lowest point.”
“5.9.2. The stability of the life raft during boarding may be ascertained as follows; two persons, each wearing approved lifejackets, should board the empty life raft. It should then be demonstrated that the two persons in the life raft can readily assist from the water a third person who is required to feign unconsciousness. The third person must have his back towards the entrance so that he cannot assist the rescuers. It should be demonstrated that the water pockets adequately counteract the upsetting moment on the life raft and there is no danger of the life raft capsizing.”
The above legislation has also been applied to the ‘Non-SoLaS’ 4 Person life raft without issue.
The RFD Beaufort Marine life raft range is SoLaS compliant. We have therefore been able to demonstrate compliance with the above legislation.
The stability generated by the design and positioning of the water pockets on the underside of the raft coupled with the low profile canopy/arch tube construction provides sufficient stability regardless of the number of occupants (up to maximum).
Please understand that I can only comment on the RFD Beaufort/Survitec Group product range!
scotty123
Well-Known Member
Someone I knew, bought a yacht in the US, which had a self righting liferaft on it, highly recommended by USCG.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
Thought the idea was, that the strongest person got in first, so why would a child have to struggle "including ease for a child", when they should be helped by an adult already in it?
prv
Well-Known Member
Actually could well be the conditions you'd need it in, given that the three most likely reasons to need it are fire on board, hitting a submerged object (eg container) and being run down by a ship. None of those depend on the weather.
How likely is bad weather alone to sink a yacht? Dismast it, roll it, yes, but in those cases you'd still be better off in the hull. Witness the various cases of people abandoning ship in bad weather and the boat turning up weeks later basically OK. And in any case, if the weather's bad enough to sink an entire yacht, your chances in the liferaft seem slim indeed.
If I had a liferaft, I'd expect to be just as likely to need it in calm or moderate conditions as in storms.
Not a bad idea for the full belt-and-braces approach. On Stavros (and I assume most other ships) there is an immersion suit for each person on board, which you'd put on before boarding the liferafts in all but the fastest of sinkings. They do take up a fair bit of stowage space though - not a problem on the ship but more than I'd like to dedicate on a normal sized yacht.
Pete
scotty123
Well-Known Member
if any of those events take place, just hope your raft is not a valise hidden in some locker.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
How far you are from rescue is a key factor. I saw one surprisingly cheap 8-man raft labelled 'for coastal use'. It had no canopy but closer examination of the tiny photos showed it also had no floor and in fact was under 3 ft square. It was just a float with room round the edge for 8 people to hang on to!
For use around the channel you can forego some of the 'extras' you might want in a blue water raft - extended equipment pack, double floor etc. The valise/canister issue can significantly affect the price. If you have a suitable locker to stow the raft you can save a few quid.
I would go round a show and see some inflated examples then you can judge how well they meet your needs. Or go to a service agent and ask him what makes are good.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
As mentioned by others.
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2009/ps_3.html
http://www.givensliferafts.com/
prv
Well-Known Member
Quite. That's actually a fairly large part of the reason I don't have one.
There's no sensible place on deck on KS to stow a liferaft, no lockers in the cockpit, and the stern lazarette is both awkward to get at in a hurry and full of important stuff. So I decided to enlarge the opening to the space under the head of the quarter berth, and make a dedicated locker for the liferaft (and other emergency equipment). It's right next to the companionway, which is not very high, and any normal person could heft a four-man raft directly into the cockpit from there.
Shortly afterwards, there was a sad thread on here about a yacht catching fire, and the point came up that this was actually the most likely use for a raft. If I'd narrowly escaped into the cockpit with a sheet of flame behind me, the raft under the quarter berth would be no use. Same if a huge steel bow came roaring out of the murk and chopped the boat in half. Only an on-deck mounting with a hydrostatic release will do for that.
If I was worried about being overwhelmed by weather, then perhaps I could get it into the cockpit (lashed down) ahead of time. But as I already mentioned, I'm not terribly convinced that in this scenario the raft is both necessary and capable of doing the job.
With the below-deck locker useless in the most likely scenarios, and the whole liferaft of questionable utility in others, I have so far decided not to put the locker to its intended purpose. The space is still there if I change my mind.
Pete
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Actually, the recorded evidence does not bear that out. Although there was a deployment in Greece this year because of fire, it is the only one in recent times. There are only 3 situations when liferafts have (or could have) been deployed. Extreme conditions when boat has been overwhelmed, structural failure (mostly, but not all racing boats) or collision. In most of the last the results have been catastrophic. Only two of the 20 or so cases in UK or Irish waters and involving yachts in the last 15 years or so have been of the type shown. One was after a collision where the yacht stayed afloat for several minutes and the other was planned because the yacht was slowly sinking. In both cases the raft worked perfectly and all crew survived.
However, if you read the rest of the reports, you would not be so keen about taking to a raft!
xyachtdave
Well-Known Member
This 'for coastal use' kids paddling pool effort type of thing is exactly what I am trying to avoid buying!
Budget won't stretch to Givens though.....