Talbot
Well-Known Member
Gas fridge works ok on a catamaran
which fridge 4 liveaboard
- Thread starter ribrage
- Start date
kalessin
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
Perhaps it's worth saying, for people without 50ft ketches and generators, that it is possible just to use your fridge as a permanently cool coolbox, i.e. without getting too hung up on the exact temperature.
I suspect that there is quite a temperature gradient in our fridge, which is a top-opening converted coolbox with refrigeration unit. It has a dedicated battery which is adequately charged for a couple of days by the solar panels, after that we need to run the engine for an hour or so each day.
I put fresh meat or fish next to the coolplate and wouldn't expect it to last more than a day or two (at Spanish temperatures). Beer goes to the bottom and acts as chilled ballast for as long as possible. Milk and other drinks as low as possible. Veg and salads go on top. In between go the kind of foods which in years of experience with a non-chilled coolbox have not killed my family, eg cheese, sealed ham and salami, eggs, yogurts.
My system works fine - the only downside is the rest of the crew, who in groping for a beer will often dislodge the lettuce from its delicately balanced position on top, and shove it against the coolplate, where it freezes and dies... and I also haven't convinced them yet that if you get a bottle of lemonade out of the fridge and leave it to warm up for an hour or two, it will warm up everything else whn you put it back.
Perhaps it's worth saying, for people without 50ft ketches and generators, that it is possible just to use your fridge as a permanently cool coolbox, i.e. without getting too hung up on the exact temperature.
I suspect that there is quite a temperature gradient in our fridge, which is a top-opening converted coolbox with refrigeration unit. It has a dedicated battery which is adequately charged for a couple of days by the solar panels, after that we need to run the engine for an hour or so each day.
I put fresh meat or fish next to the coolplate and wouldn't expect it to last more than a day or two (at Spanish temperatures). Beer goes to the bottom and acts as chilled ballast for as long as possible. Milk and other drinks as low as possible. Veg and salads go on top. In between go the kind of foods which in years of experience with a non-chilled coolbox have not killed my family, eg cheese, sealed ham and salami, eggs, yogurts.
My system works fine - the only downside is the rest of the crew, who in groping for a beer will often dislodge the lettuce from its delicately balanced position on top, and shove it against the coolplate, where it freezes and dies... and I also haven't convinced them yet that if you get a bottle of lemonade out of the fridge and leave it to warm up for an hour or two, it will warm up everything else whn you put it back.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
I know exactly what you are talking about, trying to get people "Fridge/freezer" educated!! like I tell them, only open the freezer, when the genny is running or when we are on shorepower, (not often in the summer) not too difficult to have a list of whats in the freezer and a bit of forward planning for meals. Only open the fridge for as short a time as possible, keep the fridge and freezer as full as poss, always have bags of ice in the freezer etc etc. It does work.
I know exactly what you are talking about, trying to get people "Fridge/freezer" educated!! like I tell them, only open the freezer, when the genny is running or when we are on shorepower, (not often in the summer) not too difficult to have a list of whats in the freezer and a bit of forward planning for meals. Only open the fridge for as short a time as possible, keep the fridge and freezer as full as poss, always have bags of ice in the freezer etc etc. It does work.
Jonny_H
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
We are in the market for a new fridge unit. The current compressor runs hot and the cooling plate doesn't cool - warm beer being the result!
As the whole lot is now 11 years old, it appears sensible to replace the lot. Waeco were offering good prices at SIBS this weekend, but the compressors were running very hot (someone said ... bargain; fridge and oven in one!). Frigoboat stuff seems excellent - think we're coming down on the side of a water cooled version with the little plate on the outside of the hull - it appears from this thread that Frigoboat seems good stuff - anyone experienced the water cooled stuff (and installation of)?
Thanks
Jonny
We are in the market for a new fridge unit. The current compressor runs hot and the cooling plate doesn't cool - warm beer being the result!
As the whole lot is now 11 years old, it appears sensible to replace the lot. Waeco were offering good prices at SIBS this weekend, but the compressors were running very hot (someone said ... bargain; fridge and oven in one!). Frigoboat stuff seems excellent - think we're coming down on the side of a water cooled version with the little plate on the outside of the hull - it appears from this thread that Frigoboat seems good stuff - anyone experienced the water cooled stuff (and installation of)?
Thanks
Jonny
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
The "hull plate" type are excellent, although personally I would go for water cooled through hull, with a strainer (engine/genny type) inline to stop crud. Make the seacock an inline connection, then if any bi-valves get stuck up it, you can remove the hose open the seacock and ram a spike throught to dislodge them, you will get wet! but will clean the seacock.
I have air cooled fridges and have never had warm beer and they always seem to work fine. The compressors do run hot, but are designed to, check your one on the fridge at home.
The "hull plate" type are excellent, although personally I would go for water cooled through hull, with a strainer (engine/genny type) inline to stop crud. Make the seacock an inline connection, then if any bi-valves get stuck up it, you can remove the hose open the seacock and ram a spike throught to dislodge them, you will get wet! but will clean the seacock.
I have air cooled fridges and have never had warm beer and they always seem to work fine. The compressors do run hot, but are designed to, check your one on the fridge at home.
shamrock
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
We have the keel cooler (little plate on outside) and it works very well. Installation appeared to be a doddle (although the fridge was one of the few things I got someone else to do) and you have the comfort of a 'thru-hull' without an opening to fail / leak / sink the boat etc.
The fridge works much better that the previous aircooled one and since the compressor and evap plate are the same, it's the keel cooler that makes the difference. Our fridge is split in two and we fitted a little fan in the divider which has a thermostat and draws air off the evap plate so one box is 'fridge' and the other is 'cool' at about 10'C for beer, wine, vegatables etc without putting as much load on the fridge.
I got the installation done by Penguin Frigo who were very good and use the Danfoss compressor, like most of the quality fitters. The guy who fitted mine does lots of work for Oyster too so knew what he was doing.
Oh and yes, we have a temp readout with a prode inside the fridge so we do know. I bought one of those weather centre things from ebay with two outdoor sensors and I keep one in the fridge and another in the engine bay. That often gives the unit 'outdoor' readings of +40'C and +4'C which really confuses the little weather girl icon that's supposed to forecast for you!
We have the keel cooler (little plate on outside) and it works very well. Installation appeared to be a doddle (although the fridge was one of the few things I got someone else to do) and you have the comfort of a 'thru-hull' without an opening to fail / leak / sink the boat etc.
The fridge works much better that the previous aircooled one and since the compressor and evap plate are the same, it's the keel cooler that makes the difference. Our fridge is split in two and we fitted a little fan in the divider which has a thermostat and draws air off the evap plate so one box is 'fridge' and the other is 'cool' at about 10'C for beer, wine, vegatables etc without putting as much load on the fridge.
I got the installation done by Penguin Frigo who were very good and use the Danfoss compressor, like most of the quality fitters. The guy who fitted mine does lots of work for Oyster too so knew what he was doing.
Oh and yes, we have a temp readout with a prode inside the fridge so we do know. I bought one of those weather centre things from ebay with two outdoor sensors and I keep one in the fridge and another in the engine bay. That often gives the unit 'outdoor' readings of +40'C and +4'C which really confuses the little weather girl icon that's supposed to forecast for you!
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
How does it work with the same compresor, or rather how do you cool it? I would be interested how to convert an air cooled fridge/freezer to keel cooling, is the plate copper, so it doesnt get fouling on? Never seen one you see.
How does it work with the same compresor, or rather how do you cool it? I would be interested how to convert an air cooled fridge/freezer to keel cooling, is the plate copper, so it doesnt get fouling on? Never seen one you see.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Sorry for one moment there thought you wrote caravan!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
shamrock
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
I actually had the whole lot replaced to get a warrenty on the whole installation, as apparently the end fittings on the keel cooler were different to those on the compressor, but otherwise the compressor was exactly the same make, the Danfoss BD50. I suspect if you know what you're doing you can break into the refrigerant lines, remove the radiator and fan, replace with the keel cooler and recharge with gas (making sure you recover the old gas and dispose of it legally, of course)
The keel cooler is a sintered bronze plate with tiny channels through which the refrigerant flows. Simply put, instead of the gas flowing through a radiator in the air cooled version, it flows down to the keel cooler. Being bronze, it doesn't seem to foul (don't anti foul it!) and its clearly way more efficient than air cooling.
There's a description of the keel cooler system here
I actually had the whole lot replaced to get a warrenty on the whole installation, as apparently the end fittings on the keel cooler were different to those on the compressor, but otherwise the compressor was exactly the same make, the Danfoss BD50. I suspect if you know what you're doing you can break into the refrigerant lines, remove the radiator and fan, replace with the keel cooler and recharge with gas (making sure you recover the old gas and dispose of it legally, of course)
The keel cooler is a sintered bronze plate with tiny channels through which the refrigerant flows. Simply put, instead of the gas flowing through a radiator in the air cooled version, it flows down to the keel cooler. Being bronze, it doesn't seem to foul (don't anti foul it!) and its clearly way more efficient than air cooling.
There's a description of the keel cooler system here
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
Waeco and frigoboat compressors are almost certainly the same danfoss units. running warm is normally a symptom of too small a unit for the load, a loss of refridgerant, or kids continually leaving the door open and putting warm stuff into the fridge!
Waeco and frigoboat compressors are almost certainly the same danfoss units. running warm is normally a symptom of too small a unit for the load, a loss of refridgerant, or kids continually leaving the door open and putting warm stuff into the fridge!
Talbot
Well-Known Member
The average boat spends significantly more time at anchor or alongside than sailing. Occupants of the average half boat would be very happy to have anything approaching the space of a decent caravan.
Those of us with real boats with a multiplicity of hulls recognise that a caravan is unneccessarily cramped. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Those of us with real boats with a multiplicity of hulls recognise that a caravan is unneccessarily cramped. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
[ QUOTE ]
How does it work with the same compresor, or rather how do you cool it? I would be interested how to convert an air cooled fridge/freezer to keel cooling, is the plate copper, so it doesnt get fouling on? Never seen one you see.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not the same compressor. The model number is the same for the same capacity, but it has a different suffix. The air cooled one needs to drive a fan as well as the compressor pump. The one for the keel cooler only drives the compressor pump (hence less power requirement)
[ QUOTE ]
How does it work with the same compresor, or rather how do you cool it? I would be interested how to convert an air cooled fridge/freezer to keel cooling, is the plate copper, so it doesnt get fouling on? Never seen one you see.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not the same compressor. The model number is the same for the same capacity, but it has a different suffix. The air cooled one needs to drive a fan as well as the compressor pump. The one for the keel cooler only drives the compressor pump (hence less power requirement)
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
No one has yet mentioned the amount of insulation on the fridge. I have just had the bad news delivered to me by Penguin, that although they can provide a wonderful keel cooled system for the Med, I would be wasting time and money not to do a proper job - the Westerly Oceanlord has bugger all insulation!
I was quite happy with the performance of the fridge in the UK - its huge - far bigger than the recommended size for the existing cooling unit. But Westerly along with many manufacturers from the 90's didn't give it much insulation.
So I now have to explore the whole basis - perhaps rip of the work top - pull out the old unit - work out what size will fit with the correct insulation (3 inches), get a new liner made up from GRP- fit with insulation then redo work top.
They say every cloud has a silver lining - SWMBO hates the Westerly Tile finish on the current work surface and wants to change it. So ......... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
No one has yet mentioned the amount of insulation on the fridge. I have just had the bad news delivered to me by Penguin, that although they can provide a wonderful keel cooled system for the Med, I would be wasting time and money not to do a proper job - the Westerly Oceanlord has bugger all insulation!
I was quite happy with the performance of the fridge in the UK - its huge - far bigger than the recommended size for the existing cooling unit. But Westerly along with many manufacturers from the 90's didn't give it much insulation.
So I now have to explore the whole basis - perhaps rip of the work top - pull out the old unit - work out what size will fit with the correct insulation (3 inches), get a new liner made up from GRP- fit with insulation then redo work top.
They say every cloud has a silver lining - SWMBO hates the Westerly Tile finish on the current work surface and wants to change it. So ......... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
First you should look at how good your insulation is - 3 inches all round is recommended. Not many boats have that....
Then Frigoboat with a keel kooler
Then Frigoboat with a keel kooler
ribrage
Well-Known Member
well got mine sussed out , gone for a replacement of what is already there so water cooled unit as i already have the skin fittings in place so kinda made sense the frigoboat guys are well clued up, existing cabinet already has enough space and insulation so that can stay but the new ''cooler bits'' consume a third of the power compared to the old unit so solar panels and wind gennie should cope ..... thanks for the tip guys
philmarks
Well-Known Member
My freezer (inherited) is air cooled (Danfoss comp) and works well in the tropics.
Re Keel/through hull cooled versions: if you lay up ashore in the tropics and live aboard for more than a couple of days, you obvioulsy can't use your fridge/freezer as there's no cooling via keel/through hull.
Re Keel/through hull cooled versions: if you lay up ashore in the tropics and live aboard for more than a couple of days, you obvioulsy can't use your fridge/freezer as there's no cooling via keel/through hull.
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
My freezer (inherited) is air cooled (Danfoss comp) and works well in the tropics.
[/ QUOTE ]My Danfoss air cooled serves a huge fridge that also pulls down as a freezer, and here in the Med we have no probs. I concur with you about being out of the water.
My freezer (inherited) is air cooled (Danfoss comp) and works well in the tropics.
[/ QUOTE ]My Danfoss air cooled serves a huge fridge that also pulls down as a freezer, and here in the Med we have no probs. I concur with you about being out of the water.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
with a keel cooler, if you lay up ashore in the tropics and live aboard for more than a couple of days, you obviously can't use your fridge/freezer as there's no cooling via keel/through hull.
[/ QUOTE ]
A good point, however, it would then be possible to lay in quantities of ice and use it as a cool box (provided it is sealed properly, and is top opening!)
with a keel cooler, if you lay up ashore in the tropics and live aboard for more than a couple of days, you obviously can't use your fridge/freezer as there's no cooling via keel/through hull.
[/ QUOTE ]
A good point, however, it would then be possible to lay in quantities of ice and use it as a cool box (provided it is sealed properly, and is top opening!)
arthur1808
Well-Known Member
Re: How many people actually KNOW the temperature of their refrigerato
Installation isn't a problem. I fitted a Frigoboat system with a bronze keel cooler to an existing coolbox ( and I'm not a tech head by any means!). IIRC the system came with charged sealed pipework that you just connected together whereupon the whole thing was ready to go. It worked really well too!!
Good luck..
Installation isn't a problem. I fitted a Frigoboat system with a bronze keel cooler to an existing coolbox ( and I'm not a tech head by any means!). IIRC the system came with charged sealed pipework that you just connected together whereupon the whole thing was ready to go. It worked really well too!!
Good luck..