Which dinghy for a first boat?

Grayham has the right idea. You need to decide where to sail as you don't want to be the odd ones out with a boat your chosen club don't sail.

Also, you don't have to spend a fortune - lots of kit gets recycled at clubs with a large number of children as they grow out of stuff so fast. As for boats we bought our first Cadet for £400, Ok it needed a bit of paint and varnish but this boat was good enough to win the Inland Champs a few years later. I think two handed boats are bit more fun and teach things like team-work as well as spinnaker handling and other basics. Single handers can be a bit lonely.

Investment is time and some effort, the reward is you will have sailors to share your great sport with in the future, the kids make friends for life and become fit, self reliant and confident people.
 
dave_gibsea said:
I think two handed boats are bit more fun and teach things like team-work as well as spinnaker handling and other basics. Singlehanders can be a bit lonely.
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This is true, unless the competitive spirit is unevenly divided - if one kid is burning to beat the rest of the fleet, while his brother would rather be kicking a ball. If there's a potential Ainslie amongst them, he'll be frustrated by not having a boat designed to reward the singlehander.

There are options which allow for single and double handing - the Dart catamaran amongst them, though that may well prove too demanding for young kids.

A Mirror dinghy is a nice cheap, popular option and quite versatile, with enough jobs for two, but can easily be managed by one; and it's a cute little row-boat too, fun for fishing, picnics and likely to be a good grounding in plywood repairs. Plus, it's usefully compact at only 10ft 10in long. Keenly raced, but very old-school performance.
 
To be honest it's not always a good idea to have siblings in the same boat, certainly a younger child (not related) crewing to get experience with a slightly older child can work well. I have seen siblings literaly come to blows!! I agree the Mirror is a great introduction (I had one) but it's not a junior or youth boat so you will find adults turning up to take the chocolates even at a small club event.
 
dancrane said:
A Mirror dinghy is a nice cheap, popular option and quite versatile.....
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And I just happen to have one, only a little still in bits, in my garage ..... and there was I wittering on about Toppers when we don't have that one any longer!

We used it as a family sailing tender for a year or two - including a circumnavigation of Horsey Island - but it broke away whilst towing up the Wallet in what turned out (when we turned back to get it) to be a Force 6. So it's got a new reinforced bow transom....

We also car-topped it down to Salcombe for Easter holidays and my daughter sailed it with a friend from time to time (when the tide was in) in our local creek off the Medway. Then she got the Topper after doing a course at a RYA centre which had them. We sold the Topper after my son had taken it over and got all competitive with it, for about £200 more than I originally paid - but with new mast, sail, centre mainsheet conversion, etc.

Couldn't expect more than I paid for the Mirror in its present condition - but a bit more than the cost of the new paint I've yet to put on would be nice... as would the return of the space in the garage.
 
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James_Calvert said:
Couldn't expect more than I paid for the Mirror in present condition - but more than the cost of the new paint I've yet to put on would be nice, as would the return of the space in the garage.
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Think yourself fortunate, I can't paint my dinghy in this weather because she doesn't fit in my garage! :rolleyes:
 
prv said:
He seems to have got it into his head that the weather is terrible, despite all experience to the contrary.
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Yeah, okay, it's not actually raining at the moment. But I'm told I'll need temperatures well over 10° for at least 24hrs, for the paint to dry without condensation affecting it...

...and I heard warnings of frost this weekend. And the boat's outdoors. Plenty of other things I could and should be doing to make ready, but I've other items on my plate too.
 
I would suggest the Laser Pico - light enough and easy enough for a young teenager to handle it, but fast enough to be fun and complicated enough to learn proper sailing. Toppers are fun and nowhere near as bad as some make them out to be, but they don't have the complexity of a full sized dinghy and the boys will soon outgrow them.
 
Dazedkipper said:
Ok, I know we don't generally do dinghys on here, big boys toys and all that, but I need a bit of advice. My GF's two sons, aged 11 & 13 are getting interested in sailing. They have been out on my boat a few times but I feel that they, as I did, should learn to sail from the ground upwards in a dinghy. Thing is the designs have changed somewhat since I sailed them (it was all in black and white then) so can anyone suggest something suitable, that won't break the bank and will be robust enough so they won't break it?
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Start with a Topper!

When the youngest is 12 get a Laser

Then get a 420 for both when the youngest is 14.

Upset the manager when the youngest is 15 and get a 29er

When the youngest is 17 they can go and buy a 49er using there own funds as they will have been working at Tesco's to pay for their sailing addiction
 
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Topper is definitely a very strong candidate. Ignore folks who look down on them - great robust trainer, can furl sail round mast to reef in stronger winds - and very competitive junior racing all over the country if they choose to go down that route.
Other good advice is to see what is sailed at the local club, or indeed start by investing money in a course which has boats available.

As an ex-enterprise and 420 sailor I would suggest avoiding the former (too heavy for kids that age) and also the latter, unless/until reached regional race squad level - when he expense and complexity makes more sense.
 
Dazedkipper said:
Ok, I know we don't generally do dinghys on here, big boys toys and all that, but I need a bit of advice. My GF's two sons, aged 11 & 13 are getting interested in sailing. They have been out on my boat a few times but I feel that they, as I did, should learn to sail from the ground upwards in a dinghy. Thing is the designs have changed somewhat since I sailed them (it was all in black and white then) so can anyone suggest something suitable, that won't break the bank and will be robust enough so they won't break it?
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13 YO might grow out of a topper soon.
A lot depends on budget.
Even if you can afford a shiny new rotomoulded boat like a Magno or Pico or whatever, be aware that people can want to move on to racier boats pretty soon.
A cheap topper or laser can be sold on for what you pay for it.
There are no right or wrong answers, all those boats were right for someone, once!
Best thing is to join a club and see what works there.
 
Worth looking for an Otter. Slightly faster and more seaworthy than a Mirror. Lower maintenance being GRP. Can row it and motor it. Early ones are Gunter rig later ones bermudan with a two part mast. Safe for learning in.
 
dunedin said:
Topper is definitely a very strong candidate. Ignore folks who look down on them - great robust trainer, can furl sail round mast to reef in stronger winds - and very competitive junior racing all over the country if they choose to go down that route.
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No pleasure to me to disagree, but after almost a decade of Topper sailing in the 'eighties, I can't recommend it at all, except on durability...

...for kids approaching their teens, it's certain to be sneered at by sailing-peers as "the boat their mother approved of" - safe, light, colourful and pitiably slow.

The bow is a weird, round shape like a flat barrel, and the daggerboard is fat as Popeye's forearm. And reefing by rolling the little sail round the mast gives it an awful shape.

The bigger, much cooler Laser is far from perfect, but it is a quick, slick, internationally respected race-boat, easily detuned for lightweights by using the smaller rigs available.

If you buy the kids a Laser, they'll only need to change from the 4.7sq meter sail, to the Radial, to the full-bore Olympic size as their weight & ability increases...

...at an average of 12 years, they're just on the point of outgrowing the Topper. It's only for fresh novices. Look at me! 25 years on and I'm still nervous of capsizing. :rolleyes:
 
dancrane said:
No pleasure to me to disagree, but after almost a decade of Topper sailing in the 'eighties, I can't recommend it at all, except on durability...
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Dan, you're out of date! The Topper is now the most thriving class of boat for the younger age groups and race-rigged, has more than enough challenge for them up to the age of 14 or so. Our son only went onto a Laser Radial when he got too heavy (taller not fatter) to remain competitive, and he was 14 and tall for his age - many of his peers carried on an extra year on getting into the National Squad.

The RYA organise Zone Squads on a regional basis which provide training over the winter - there are more youngsters in the Toppers than in any other class. Topper sailing is an RYA recognised pathway to sailing Lasers at Olympic standard, the training available is top class, and the kids involved in these schemes know all that.

The fallout from all this is that there are many, many new Toppers produced every year for the UK's top dinghy sailers (and the many who aspire to this) and there are many used race rigged boats available for those coming up from Optimists, or just starting to sail like my son.

If the OP goes for a Topper, I'd advise getting a boat of that standard - which should be possible for under £1,000 if they're not too bothered about how recent the sail no is. They'd then have a boat which has a crisp newish sail ready for racing with, probably an older sail suitable for training/learning with, some relevant spares, and a hull which has been looked after and not significantly scratched. And one that could be sold on in a couple of years if need be for much the same money.
 
James_Calvert said:
Dan, you're out of date!
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I certainly am. In fact I have happy memories of sailing the Topper, but they are undermined by the recollection of always being slower than almost every other class of boat.

Of course, it's entirely possible that I'd have been left behind by the crowd whatever I was sailing...and it's true I don't have one competitive bone...

...it's just that I doubt the Topper class has the performance-rating to make new, youthful sailors proud of it, especially amongst other kids who sail other, faster classes.
 
Thanks all, some good food for thought. I'm at Marconi SC so they will sail from there, certainly to begin with. There is a mixed bag of dinghies and cats but I know the cadet fleet use Toppers and Picos so I think well take a closer look at those to start with.
 
Slowtack said:
Pretty soon they will want to race so check out what fleets are near you before buying
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Not necessarily. There does seem to be a big assumption here that all children with dinghies want to race. If they do then of course that's fine, but if they are more into pottering, exploring and non-competitive fun then quite a different sort of dinghy may be appropriate.
 
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