Which boat next

To be fair we will make our own mind up in the end. It’s a shame that all the good points of boats/engines aren’t put onto forums.
All the views from everyone are greatly appreciated especially as we all see things differently so objective views are welcome, just makes getting to final decision a bit long winded
 
Just about every boat ever built has been discussed on here at one time or another. Google does a better job of indexing threads than the forum search facility so it's worth typing the following into your browser for all relevant threads (replace targa 47 if you must)....

site:ybw.com targa 47

Obviously some people are biased so you need to take their comments wit a pinch of salt ;).
 
Ratkins said:
Blimey
Thanks Portofino, hadn’t thought to much about engines really,
We like the princess v range
Click to expand...

We have a V42, and even in his drunken state, PeteM gave a begrudging thumbs up to our layout - sunpad, garage etc etc. For us it does the job, but as others have said, if you are looking at entertaining, prolonged stays etc a flybridge may be a better choice.

However, acknowledging the requirements of Mrs R, from our experience, we are more than happy that a V42 "does it" for two of us, but if we were entertaining and having guests stay over, then in our view we would be looking at 48 foot + flybridge, or a 50 foot + sports cruiser... but it has taken us at least a season and a half to reach that conclusion. Moreover the family dynamics continue to evolve, which can change your outlook / perception.

Each to their own.

For us, SWMBO had completely discounted a flybridge until we stepped on a Sealine F48, and that changed her point of view.... god knows what "I" want now !!

Good luck with whatever you decide.....
 
Portofino said:
Italian rivals all have big boys engines of the order of 12-13 L 700 Hp or more some 15/16 L 800 Hp.
...
MAN engines if possible or MTU
Click to expand...
While the only way I could have VP engines again in my boat is OMDB, I would NEVER rank MANs (and neither MTUs) as the best choice in the 12/15 liters - 700/800hp power node.
Cat 3196 (aka C12) and 3406 (aka C15) are in fact better engines in just about every respect, imho - particularly the latter.
Btw, I have it on very good authority that there's one and only reason why MAN was much more popular than Cat engines in the late 90s/early naughties among builders, and it's their more competitive pricing - nothing else.

Then again, choices are driven by compromises, as always.
I liked the boat I eventually bought from several other viewpoints, and she was only built with MANs, so I had to take the engines together with the rest.
But I see no reason why that should make me biased towards them.

If I should throw in a suggestion for which you can call me biased, I'd rather have a DP48 than a Rizzardi CR45.
Not that the latter isn't a good suggestion (I would prefer her to a T47 which is another great boat, in fact - sorry petem, I just say it as I see it :rolleyes:), but the former is even better - and she was Cat powered, btw. :encouragement:
 
MapisM said:
While the only way I could have VP engines again in my boat is OMDB, I would NEVER rank MANs (and neither MTUs) as the best choice in the 12/15 liters - 700/800hp power node.
Cat 3196 (aka C12) and 3406 (aka C15) are in fact better engines in just about every respect, imho - particularly the latter.
Btw, I have it on very good authority that there's one and only reason why MAN was much more popular than Cat engines in the late 90s/early naughties among builders, and it's their more competitive pricing - nothing else.

Then again, choices are driven by compromises, as always.
I liked the boat I eventually bought from several other viewpoints, and she was only built with MANs, so I had to take the engines together with the rest.
But I see no reason why that should make me biased towards them.

If I should throw in a suggestion for which you can call me biased, I'd rather have a DP48 than a Rizzardi CR45.
Not that the latter isn't a good suggestion (I would prefer her to a T47 which is another great boat, in fact - sorry petem, I just say it as I see it :rolleyes:), but the former is even better - and she was Cat powered, btw. :encouragement:
Click to expand...

I left CAT out deliberately because from a second hand or multiple owner POV it might be difficult to trace the service history ( SH ) .
Reason CAT ,s particularly the noughties years have multiple engine anodes on coolers etc .Fine if the previous owners have meticulously followed the change / service regime. -Point is they have not ! Or how do you know .
Permit me to introduce you the phenomenon of “ differed maintenance “

MAN / MTU use a completely different anodic protection system there’s no hard to get to ( read neglected ) anodes what so ever on the motors .

This means for a used boat prospect there’s less probability of in a pass the parcel kinda way coping the “ deferred maintenance “ of the CAT C12 or C15 ., if you get a MAN / MTU boat .

I know two guys with newly purchased C12 ,s who came a cropper with exhaust manifolds due to “ differed maintenance “ .

With MAN / MTU you only have to change the hull and sterngear anodes which stare you in the face @ lift out and any chump can see ( if they are depleted) and do .Theres zero anode wise on the mains in the engine room .
Geny excluded .

Those pencil anodes on CAT ,s btw for those don,t know are to protect expensive components made from dissimilar metals in contact with seawater from corrosion.

It’s NOT the OP or any dilligent member ( can’t imagine Volvo Paul missing them ) it’s the previous owner(s) of a 5-7 y old boat - if they not been diligently change somebody’s gonna cop it .
Remember at year 7 the owner could have put new ones in the week before survey .

That’s all it’s up to the OP to access the risk of new heat exchangers and manifolds with CAT C12/15 .
There’s zero risk with MAN / MTU .
 
Andy Bav said:
We have a V42, and even in his drunken state, PeteM gave a begrudging thumbs up to our layout - sunpad, garage etc etc. For us it does the job, but as others have said, if you are looking at entertaining, prolonged stays etc a flybridge may be a better choice.
Click to expand...

In my defense, I had just had a harrowing experience and you were encouraging me with those milky liqueur things!

But I have to agree, your V42 is very nice. How many did we have in your cockpit that night, 8 was it?
 
Last edited:
Portofino said:
I left CAT out deliberately because from a second hand or multiple owner POV it might be difficult to trace the service history
Click to expand...
I'm missing the reason why the previous owner(s) should have replaced the genset anodes and ignored the mains. :confused:
If you assume that any engine maintenance that could be neglected WILL actually be neglected, then you'd better keep a sailboat in your berth and a bicycle in your garage, I reckon.
Try to run MAN engines with no oil, and see what happens... :ambivalence:
 
Last edited:
MapisM said:
While the only way I could have VP engines again in my boat is OMDB, I would NEVER rank MANs (and neither MTUs) as the best choice in the 12/15 liters - 700/800hp power node.
Cat 3196 (aka C12) and 3406 (aka C15) are in fact better engines in just about every respect, imho - particularly the latter.
Btw, I have it on very good authority that there's one and only reason why MAN was much more popular than Cat engines in the late 90s/early naughties among builders, and it's their more competitive pricing - nothing else.

Then again, choices are driven by compromises, as always.
I liked the boat I eventually bought from several other viewpoints, and she was only built with MANs, so I had to take the engines together with the rest.
But I see no reason why that should make me biased towards them.

If I should throw in a suggestion for which you can call me biased, I'd rather have a DP48 than a Rizzardi CR45.
Not that the latter isn't a good suggestion (I would prefer her to a T47 which is another great boat, in fact - sorry petem, I just say it as I see it :rolleyes:), but the former is even better - and she was Cat powered, btw. :encouragement:
Click to expand...

From personal experience (not owning but sea trialing and as skipper) I would say the Man R6 (12 liter) is better then the C12 equivalent. On hull alone (seakeeping) the DP48 or 50 with shafts is a bit better to a Rizzardi 45 Incredible.
Worth to note that DP is also a bit longer going just above the 15 meters. On the performance mark the Rizzardi tends to run faster.
Not much different in weight between the two boats though (half a ton) the Rizzardi Incredible is a bit flatter aft at 16 degrees to the DP 19 degrees.
 
MapisM said:
I'm missing the reason why the previous owner(s) should have replaced the genset anodes and ignored the mains. :confused:
If you assume that any engine maintenance that could be neglected WILL actually be neglected, then you'd better keep a sailboat in your berth and a bicycle in your garage, I reckon.
Try to run MAN engines with no oil, and see what happens... :ambivalence:
Click to expand...

Access , availability, hassle , forgetfulness, time constraints.
If you take Del of a brand newbie that’s different you can assuming you are aware of the issue ask the engineer to leave the used anodes in a box and probably be tied to a CAT engineer anyhow .
But as a used some years old and several maintenance events later by a number of previous owners then there’s a risk that you are playing Russian roulette with leaky heat exchanger, exhaust manifold s .

Some might say that’s being pedantic, which I think is what you mean ? And there’s only a fag paper thickness between CAT and MAN / MTU .
I,am flagging derffered maintenance of the pencil zincs .
A busted €10 K geny is not a show stopper and the cost should be within an exceptional budget , in the war chest of a typical 50 for owner .
How ever a hydro lock = bent crank or rusty valve from leaky heat exchangers is a show stopper and 10,s of €10 k - painfull .

I was in a well known SoF marine engine shop last year .Kinda engine supermarket all marques .
They do telephone/ internet orders - so guys ( your white van man ) can pick up a box of engine consumables in the morning to take to a job .
Picture the scene lots of boxes on the floor with the name of the boat filled with filters , anodes , consumables.

I was after a pencil anode for my geny the bin was empty so I ask the guy ( he knows me ) and he said they were on back order .I asked how long he shrugged his shoulders .
Very kindly he rummaged into a box in the floor with boat name [ xyz ] and fished out the right part for me .
While I was looking around the shop the “ engineer “ for boat xyz turned up and ( stuff on account ) picked it up and walked out .
Time was 10.30 am .
So I ask you this Mapis - do you actually think that guys gonna bother chasing up that anode ? Returning another day ?
Probably got a few jobs , a boat / day to service spread out all over the Cote d Azur ?

And what sort of paper work is gonna wind up in sight of the owner ?
Is the owner remotely mechanical minded ?

So hope fully in a “prevention of air crash disasters “ kinda way you can see with the best will in the world those CAT pencil anodes can be “ differed “ .

The two C12 failures I know of were due to this -corroded intercoolers , both boats maintained one by a well known U.K. big three player in the CdA .
 
Portofino said:
So I ask you this Mapis - do you actually think that guys gonna bother chasing up that anode ? Returning another day ?
Probably got a few jobs , a boat / day to service spread out all over the Cote d Azur ?

And what sort of paper work is gonna wind up in sight of the owner ?
Is the owner remotely mechanical minded ?
Click to expand...
Well, your guess is as good as mine, obviously.
Otoh, that doesn't change the fact that anodes replacement is part of the routine maintenance, regardless of whether they are on shafts, rudders, flaps, or inside the e/r.
'Course they could be neglected, but the same is true for many other onboard stuff. So, what?
If dismissing Cat engines just because they have anodes that must be replaced doesn't qualify as a biased viewpoint, I don't know what else does... :confused:
 
kashurst said:
"Are the “side Shifter” thrusters worth having"
there's not much special about that particular brand. Any boat you will be looking at at more than 12m in length will almost certainly already have a built in bow thruster. Occasionally the original factory fit model might be a tad small but they can be upgraded if required. There are a variety of makes some with fancy proportional controls etc - however keeping it simple works well with boats. The only bad experience I have had with thrusters was some made by MaxPower on a Sealine - rubbish, props fell off, electronic control rotted away junk.

Stern thrusters are easy to fit if the boat of choice doesn't have one, (just bolt on the transom) but to be honest on a shaft drive boat you don't really need one - its a nice to have - handy if a bit blowy or crew getting tired. So if you pick a boat that doesn't have a stern thruster don't rush out buying one, see how you get on without for a while.
Click to expand...

Stern thrusters don’t “just bolt on”.
The motor sits in the boat and a substantial hole is needed. In terms of man hours it tends to be similar to a bow thruster. Can be a couple of hours fewer depending on the boat but not straightforward at all.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
From personal experience (not owning but sea trialing and as skipper) I would say the Man R6 (12 liter) is better then the C12 equivalent.
Click to expand...
In which ways, W?
Since we are talking of open/sport(ish) boats, you might be referring to power to weight ratio, I suppose.
In this respect, it's true that Cat never pushed engine outputs as much as MAN did.
In spite of the equivalent displacement, the R6 output is 100hp higher than the C12.
Otoh, the R6 holds 18 liters of oil, as opposed to 28 of the C12. I guess you could see that as an advantage for the MAN, when purchasing oil for replacement...
But that gives you an idea of the different approach between these builders, anyway.
And for the records, if we move up to the 15 liters range (MAN V8 vs. Cat C15), the difference in oil capacity is even more impressive: 24 liters vs. 49, no less.

Anyway, enough of supporting the engines which I would have preferred to have in my boat against the engines that I actually have! :rolleyes:
I'm more than happy to agree to disagree with PF, in that respect.
In the OP's boots, I'd rather look for the boat that better suits my need first, rather than start from the engines choice.

Ref. the DP48 vs. CR45 comparison, actually my preference for the first was not so much hull-related.
Both yards have an outstanding reputation in this respect, and I believe that both are great boats in terms of seakeeping.
It's mostly in the quality of assembly and components selection that imho the first is head and shoulders above the latter.
Though in fairness I must admit that all the (several) DPs and Rizzardis that I've seen were different models, so I'm just extrapolating my experience, so to speak.
 
Last edited:
Hang on a bit P my 2876,s take 32 L of oil . They are the EDC version pre CR of the R 6 .
The only differences are the fuel rail CR thingy up top so to speak .Adding an extra Hp .of course complying with what ever “ emissions “ regs - EU or states sides - tier what ever -I think as if today 5 ? .
But the block and sump are identical.
Where do you get. Your figure from and so what ? The multiple hidden hard to access and “ can’t be arsed “ or “ shit there not in the box “ engine cooler anodes is as I had advised in a multiple owner C12 / 15 a potential problem for a newbie green horned to 14 / 15 M boat owner .Period !

Anyhow theres no reported early failures due to low oil,capacity if that what you are implying??
Between MAN and CAT ,but shed loads of failures of premature cooler leaks from CATs aged inthe £30O K for a 50 ftr - like 7–10 year old purchase zone the OP is thinking about taking the plunge .

You asked me why in an indirect way why I did not place CAT cC12 / 15 in my suggestion considering the OP - blank sheet of paper ( loadsa choices wil do) and I have given a reason why I would advise excluding aged CAT .s with the caveat of meticulous SH .
Often brokers and owners mislay documents and BS the potential buyer - “ we will send you the doc after competition “
It never arrives .
So you sail away in a say 5/7 year C12 only to find some 3/12 months later a hydrolock .

Never happens in a MAN / MTU
 
U
Portofino said:
MAN / MTU use a completely different anodic protection system there’s no hard to get to ( read neglected ) anodes what so ever on the motors .
With MAN / MTU you only have to change the hull and sterngear anodes which stare you in the face @ lift out and any chump can see ( if they are depleted) and do .Theres zero anode wise on the mains in the engine room.
Click to expand...

Out of interest please can you explain how these engines are protected in the absence of anodes ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top