Which Boat liveaboard with children

[njamesphoto]

we have been planning our departure to take one or two years away for the last four years since the birth of our son. We are off spring 2010 with a 7 and 4 year old and have got our choice of boat down to two. We have a boat budget of around £300k and the two favourites seen to be an oyster 45/47 and Hallberg-Rassy. We currently have a 37 foot AWB which is great but with two small children comes a lot of responsability for safety. It would be great to hear from owners of either or people with experience. We plan to buy the boat well before our departure.

 

[LadyJessie]

Both are very good boats. I have sailed an Oyster 56 extensively and several models of the HR. If I personally had to choose, I would go for the HR for two reasons:

1. I don't like the 'deck saloon' types if you are sailing in warm climates. It gets very hot below. All the Oysters you see sailing in the Med have all their deck saloon windows covered up, so what is the point? It just means a lot of different levels down below and steps to stumble on. It is a great idea in northern Europe though.

2. It sounds like this is a temporary cruise for a couple of years only? If you then look to sell off the boat again you will find that HR's tend to hold their values better than Oysters. New Oysters tend to be more expensive than an HR of similar size, but in the second hand market it is the other way around.

 

[iona]

We have 3 children now 4, 7 and 10. We have owned an HR45 for 6 years and have cruised from Turkey to Scotland and back. We spend about 10 weeks on board each year. The HR is perfect with kids for all sorts of reasons but the main one is the deep centre cockpit sheltered by the windscreen and sprayhood. Few current centre cockpit yachts I can think of have such a deep cockpit, because it compromises the space below (a bit) but HRs are designed to be seamanlike first. The 45 was the first HR designed by Frers, and in my humble opinion much underated!

 

[Bajansailor]

What type of AWB do you currently have? You might find that she would be perfectly capable of 'doing the job'. Is a 47' yacht absolutely more 'safe' than a 37' yacht?

Ten years ago in Bermuda I met a couple with two young children (probably about 4 and 6 at the time) who had a year off, and were doing an Atlantic circuit on their Victoria 34. They seemed to be having an excellent cruise (they were on the leg back home to England then), and their boat appeared to be plenty big enough for them.....

 

[LadyJessie]

I would strongly second that. I have sailed an HR45 in stormy conditions in the Norwegian Sea and it is truly a 'go anywhere in any weather' boat. Very steady and predictable performance.

While I am at it; you might want to look at the Najad 44, 47 or 49. They are very similar in concept to HR, but IMHO of an even higher build quality than the HR (which says a lot).

 

[KellysEye]

One thought about HR's. We know a couple of HR's that came over the Atlantic. The first, a fifty something footer, had serious rudder problems and a pane in the cockpit screen shattered for no reason. HR were extremely unhelpul and only only responded when publicity was threatened (the owner had certain contacts).

Another HR, a forty something footer, lost it's mast. HR wanted nothing to do with it and referred them to the mast manufacturer (Selden, I think).

Both owners were seriously unhappy with HR and were bad mouthing them. Both boats were about 1 year old.

 

[mocruising]

We have an HR 46 (1997) which we purchased in May 2004. We have sailed her from the UK to the Eastern Med so far. We purchased her for a circumnavigation to start at the end of 2009. We spend about 5 months of the year on boad at present. My final choice was either an Oyster 485 or HR 46/49. I am glad I did not go for the 49 as the sailing performance is not a patch on the newer designed 46 G Frers. Look at www.mahina.com. I can not fault my boat although there are one or two minor build issues but I think this is the same for all manufacturers. We will be trading up before we set sail probably next season as we want something bigger. We have bikes dive gear and compressor plus tons of additional equipment we lifted her last week in Montenegro and she was 22 tonne. We are looking at a fully loaded 53 with E.Hyd sail handling, vang and back stay which we don't have at the moment. If you go for a HR my advice get one with a hard top. I did not like ours at first but now would not be without it.

We will be in Greece again next season. If you want to come out and sail for a few days let me know.

 

[theguvnor]

The QE2 will be up for sale soon

 

[njamesphoto]

Our current boat is a 2003 jeanneau and reading through the replys HR seem to come out on top. Interesting about the deck saloon windows being blocked out in sunny climes, our thinking was that with sailing 10% of the time 90% would be moored and enjoying the view through big windows. As one poster pointed out the oysters are more expensive new but drop lower than HR year for year, why?

 

[Jonny_H]

why not buy a second hand Oyster then?

 

[LadyJessie]

Why are second hand HR's more expensive? Well, I don't think I have all the answers to that; it is market forces I guess. Let me just venture one guess based on my very own personal observations, that might not be someone else's: although the Oysters are very well built boats, the HR's are actually even better. And don't forget to check out the Najad's if you are in this part of the market. They are the gold standard, IMHO.

The post that said "why not buy an Oyster then?" is actually spot on if you want a boat to keep and not resell. More boat for your money if you are buying in the second hand market.

 

[DickB]

I cannot comment on liveaboard buy I recently purchased an Oyster 485, and am well impressed by the build quality. Massively built, medium to heavy displacement and very comfortable. Sails really well, especially windward with the cutter rig. I would certainly check them out before jumping either way. The deck saloon is great giving a very airy feel and in my case I have storm shutters as well if need be. I can see that you may get a greenhouse effect but the front windows do open and the low opening side portlights allow cool air from close to the water to ventilate the cabin. It is quite a low freeboard and the centre cockpit is more probably shallower than the HRs or other centre cockpit yachts, still I am very pleased with the purchase. I als like the full skeg and a decent deep bilge.

On a completely different tack, you might look at one of the old Nauticat 521's. I looked at this just because it looks great and has huge accomadation. I would think this would suit a family very well. The ketch rigged ones are easily managed and a big old 6cylinder diesel would take you anywhere should the wind die away... It is tchnically a motor sailor but I saw one in the UK (Berthon) and another in St Lucia. Looked a very practical yacht.


Good luck for a great plan...

 

[mocruising]

I would not agree that Oysters are cheaper SH compared to HR. When I was in the market there were both available two of each HR 46 and 2 x 485's. The Oysters were more expensive considering the levels of equipment. I made offers on all four boats and ended up with the HR 46 as the original owner was more motivated in that he had his new HR 62. It is my opinion that Oysters are generally more expensive both new and SH.

 

[SeaVenture]

If we'd had more to spend, we'd have bought a Nauticat because of its space, how well they're built, and the pilothouse. Instead, with limited means, we bought an old Force 50, which is magnificent inside and has lots of room--and which we've been restoring to become just the boat we want. Two other Force 50's in the marina here are homes to children, who love the forward cabin. In favor of a pilothouse, we've sailed/lived on ours in 107 degree F. Mexican temperatures and in very cold SF Bay temperatures, where she is for the moment. We have installed outside window covers that let all the light in and let us see outside while keeping the heat out when we want it out. These are made from a fabric sold by Sailrite and do a commendable job of making the pilothouse suitable for all climes. I REALLY like being able to see out from inside while we're at sea, though steering from inside isn't advisable inshore. And having a view of my surroundings is wonderful.

The folks with children especially enjoy the two salons, as they afford a place for the children to play while the adults relax doing what they prefer. When our older children came, we took advantage of the separation--while open, the different levels give each generation a sense of their own space.

see www.force50.org

 

[LadyJessie]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not agree that Oysters are cheaper SH compared to HR.

[/ QUOTE ]I can not by any means claim to have all the knowledge of this market, that view is just my impression from the times I have been in the market for this type of boat. Our different views might come from different values of different sizes? I could not think of another reason.

My most recent experience comes from a comparison some three years ago of HR's and Oysters in the 53 foot range and then the HR's had higher asking price second hand, although the Oyster 53 was significantly more expensive new.

A good up-to-date check is the brokerage section of this very web site. If you search for Oyster53 and HR53 you will find that the HR's are still today offered at an at least equal and most times higher asking price than the Oyster. This is in spite of the new price still being significantly higher for the Oyster.