Which autopilot?

[MarkR]

I know this has been asked before, but I have read the posts across the various forums and still have questions:

I am about to add an autopilot to my Oceanis 311 (10m, 3,500 kg displacment) which we invariably sail short handed. It has B&G Network Quad for Depth, Speed, Log; B&G Wind; and Navman Tracker 900 GPS/Chartplotter. The latter will give NMEA 0183 output to the autopilot. The B&G kit needs an additional Quad repeater to give NMEA Wind sentences

The options I am considering are:
1. Raytheon ST4000+ MKII wheel pilot
2. Simrad WP30 wheel pilot
3. B&G Network pilot (but this seems a lot more work).

The obvious questions then are:

a) what is the recommendation based on experience of success (or failure)?

and

b) what criteria would you use to make the selection?

Thanks in advance....



Mark.

 

[escape]

From my relatively limited experience I would choose a system that fits directly to the steering quadrant as;
It removes moving parts from the cockpit which might trap little(or adult) fingers.
The effort req'd to change course is reduced using less battery power
If a failure occurs within your binacle it can be used for emergency steering.

I would then go for a product that intergrates best with my other systems.

past experinced is based on Autohelm tiller pilots; good when motoring or light winds & slight sea,
Autohelm wheelpilot driving onto large cog on wheel fitted to First 35

raytheon ST 6000 factory fitted to SO 37. Very good.

Just my experience.
Cheers

 

[LadyInBed]

I thought about using a ST4000, but the advice was to go for the heaviest duty device I could afford / justify. So I went for the ST5000 for a 7ton 33ft'er, couldn't quite afford / justify the 6000.
All the advice was along the lines of escape's post.

 

[colin_jones]

Have a look at the very under-publicised Cetrek (Teleflex Morse) 730. The technology and engineering are excellent and the pilot very versatile and ( more important) very stable in rougher weather.

 

[Boatman]

Agree with escapes posting below, I wouldn't touch the ST4000 with a long stick I had one on a very similar boat had to be replaced 4 times before I gave up and installed an ST6000 system. Alot more expensive but v.much more reliable and from a piece of mind stand point much better.

 

[Piers]

I suggest you call the engineer in charge of autopilot development for Raymarine (as it is now called) and ask his opinion. He is always willing to take calls - David Wellcome on 02392 693611. One of those ghastly automated answering systems will answer, at which point if you dial 1614 you will be routed straight to his phone.

Piers du Pré
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast
www.dupre.co.uk/fsPlaydeau.htm

 

[jtwebb]

My Dehler 36 CWS had an ST4000+ which was fine for motoring. Sailing!!!! I have now fitted an ST6001
with the 150G computer and a Type 1 electric ram. You have to have a deep pocket and you pick the items
you want. The 150G has accelerometers in it which gives the ability to detect yaw early. It does work
and the system is extremely responsive. It will take her closehauled in very variable conditions
such that angle of heel changes from 10 to 25 in a short time and back again. It was not easy to fit and
I had to use help which also cost money! The problem is providing the ram connections such that it
can withstand the stated forces of up to 1 ton or so. It is also necessary to devise sturdy stops as the
ram as fitted limits travel to +- 35 degs. The autopilot never goes there but using the ram itself as the stops
invalidates the guarantee, losing it going astern is about the only circumstance.

Others I know have fitted hydraulic rams which cost more but can take a more adverse environment.
I had to make sure the ram does not get wet. Hydraulics use more power according to the spec. You
do not have to use Raytheon rams and Datayachts in Lymington know all about the options.

There are various NMEA interfaces available and one of the NMEA outputs gives 10 per second heading to
drive a north up radar. This gives a very stable picture such that you can put trails on.

J Webb

 

[Chris_Stannard]

My advice would be to bite the bullet and fit the B&G. This is not based on knowledge of how they work, or how well, but on the basis that if you kept to the same instrument maker you are likely to have a set that work together.
My past experience is that no matter how much care you take over NMEA sentences there is always a snag. This can include different interpretations of the NMEA sentences, in particular the headers and number of decimal places. These cause 'Gremlins' in the system. Another problem is that the NMEA output is often slower than the manufacturers own data transfer standard and this can result in poor response if for example you are trying to steer a constant wind angle.



Chris Stannard

 

[MarkR]

Piers!!

You are well connected - Dave Wellcome turns out to be a very helpful guy, who would agree with the comments here as they relate to the old MKI ST4000. He reckons the MKII is far superior and is currently off finding out about the square binnacle fit problems and their in-house solution....


All in all, top notch response from Raymarine (he even interrupted his meeting to take my call). Watch this space for updates


Mark

 

[MarkR]

Chris,

The (only?) downside to the B&G is the fact that it drives to the quadrant directly and the fitting and cost will be correspondingly more expensive. B&G Tech support are currently responding by email as to what their "system" would look like...


Mark

 

[Piers]

Mark,

So pleased to hear praise for Raymarine. Personally, Dave and his team have been quite superb in their help for me and others I have pointed in their direction.

IMHO, Raymarine is having to contend with some 'bad stuff' Raymarine did before the MBO and formation of Raymarine.

So, let's look forward to some more good press - let us know what happens.

Piers du Pré
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast
www.dupre.co.uk/fsPlaydeau.htm

 

[chrisc]

I would be interested too hear their square binnacle solution
I have phoned and emailed round half the world trying to find
someone who actualy admits it is a problem.

 

[MarkR]

Chris,

They replied to me this p.m. with a pdf and template for fitting the wheel pilot to a square binnacle (or bulkhead) mounted wheel.

Essentially, they provide for cutting a round hole into which the drive motor slots. The template makes sure you get it in the right place and the accompanying gromet and metal front ring make it water-tight (apparently).

I have the pdf file if you would like to read the details - send me an email address I can reply to...

So now it can be done, the question remains, does it work? Has anyone any positive experience with the new ST4000+MkII? Should I fit the rudder sensor as well? Or do I simply double or triple the expense and go for a direct pilot like the ST5000/6000 etc?

Mark

 

[ToMo]

Why don't you e-mail them back and and ask for a money back guarantee.....from their response you should have a clearer idea as to what to do!
TôMö

 

[JerryHawkins]

Last year I fitted a Simrad WP30 to my 25' 4.5ton Fisher 25. To be honest it was the cheapest I could get that would interface with NMEA to enable steer to wind/waypoint. In my case its is fitted to a flat bulkhead not round pedestal (kit for this is extra!).

It seems to do the trick but I'm not sure I would trust it in the same way as a full-blown inboard auto pilot system with hydraulic rams and an expensive course computer. I just use mine as another pair of hands to take the boredom out of standing at the wheel for hours on end!

You get what you pay for in most things of this nature and autopilots are no exception.

Cheers, Jerry

 

[PeterGibbs]

You have to make a judgment on how much you will use it and in what conditions.
If it's just short trips and not exceptional weather any of the regular wheel pilots will suffice - for a while. Beware - the problem is not what NMEA junction is required, but how much weather your installation on deck will take before the PCB shorts out and you are left on your tod. It happens regularly. No on -deck gear is really water-proof.

After years of these frustrations and cost, I have gone underdeck with a hydraulic gear on the quadrant - Simrad. It doesn't have to be hydraulic, although they have by far the best record of sustained performance and are made (by Simrad at least) to commercial specs. Under deck also means that if the connections between wheel and quadrant fail, the autopilot will take you home!

PWG

 

[chrisc]

thanks for info Mark but three weeks too late for me .
I havent put the boat in the briney yet so can not say how the
st4000+ will function ,may have report in a weeks time .
I looked at rudder pos indicator but don't think it appropriate on
smallish (34ft) sailing boat.-or maybe i am wrong-

 

[Sinbad1]

Only two

either the Cetrec which is rugged and will last for many years
or

the Norwegian Robertson which is a yacht version of units used on commercial shipping.

All pilots can keep a course when the wind is forward of the beam, the true test is what they do when you have a F7 on the quarter!