Which Autopilot

[skipmac]

Agree wholeheartedly with most of this but my experience differs on a few.

A general comment fom someone who values his a/ pilot and has had most types on board over the years.

My opinion, for passage making an AP is one of the most important pieces of kit on the boat.

Electronics exposed to the elements will fail and when most unexpected.

Very true.

Below decks, acting on the quadrant ( assuming you have one) is optimal

Also.

Hydraulic is not cheap but works for years and alone has the power to maintain a course in tough weather.

Here I disagree. Have never used a hydraulic AP but have used a number of variations on electric motor drives including linear mechanical and motor driving through a gear and chain to a gear on the helm shaft on boats from 34 to 63' on a number of offshore passages including a Caribbean crossing a week of constant 10-12' seas and never a problem with the drives. Plenty of power and fast reaction times.

You will have noted how often deep sea sailors report failed a/pilot gear. Anything with a screw operated ram is of limited durability.

Again, not my experience after using mechanical systems for a few years. Know someone that has used a Raymarine linear mechanical drive for many years and thousands of miles and no issues other than changing the drive belt a couple of times.

Cockpit setups acting on the wheel are for weekend trips. If you believe you will trade up vessels in the medium term fit this type.

Yep.

Like radar, a/pilots are not cheap to install and do use power. You may have to add a battery if using your pilot for hours on end. This will prove one of your best investments. Brand is not critical but mine is Simrad hydraulic.

I do believe some brands are better and more reliable than others. My AP is all Simrad except for the drive which is the Raymaine linear.

PWG

 

[pyrojames]

I have hydraulics. Now 10 years old, and has worked faultlessly. No leaks and only 1 oil change so far. Simrad brain. About 15,000 miles under its belt.

 

[geem]

Hydraulic is not cheap but works for years and alone has the power to maintain a course in tough weather.
PWG

How do you work that out? I have used hydraulic and rotary drive in tough weather and both have worked well. I never saw any advantage with hydraulic.

 

[roblpm]

Here's one for you, our installation by previous owner with simple 4mm plate bolted to quadrant, still well attached after 20 years or so. Linear drive mounts to welded on bracket underneath the plate, RPS on top.

Great. Boat is Moody 376?

 

[Pete7]

Just in case the other posts have not convinced you, don't get a Raymarine wheelpilot. The newer EV software may well be improved over the older version but.............. it reacts too slow to yaws, at least my ST4000 does, and I don't see that changing the control electronics will speed up or increase the power of the same clamp on wheel unit.

As Pete has written above, there is a huge difference between the old ST4000 range and the new EVO autopilots. We have the EVO 100 wheel drive which for coastal sailing is excellent given the price point. However, for the Warren looking for offshore or ocean passages, I would choose the linear drive. There is also a 7500kg weight limit for the wheel drive which Warren may exceed or be very close if the yacht is heavily loaded for an ocean crossing.

It's a shame there aren't more wheel drives from other manufacturers.

 

[skipmac]

As Pete has written above, there is a huge difference between the old ST4000 range and the new EVO autopilots. We have the EVO 100 wheel drive which for coastal sailing is excellent given the price point. However, for the Warren looking for offshore or ocean passages, I would choose the linear drive. There is also a 7500kg weight limit for the wheel drive which Warren may exceed or be very close if the yacht is heavily loaded for an ocean crossing.

It's a shame there aren't more wheel drives from other manufacturers.

CPT makes one that is rated for bigger boats. Have a friend that used one on several long passages on a 42' Pearson. Not fancy nor as powerful as a below decks unit but has a reputation as being much more powerful than the average wheel pilot.

Only caveat I've heard is that they are strong or fast enough to use in very heavy weather.

CPT Autopilot Inc.

 

[skipmac]

CPT makes one that is rated for bigger boats. Have a friend that used one on several long passages on a 42' Pearson. Not fancy nor as powerful as a below decks unit but has a reputation as being much more powerful than the average wheel pilot.

Only caveat I've heard is that they are strong or fast enough to use in very heavy weather.

CPT Autopilot Inc.

By the way, CPT has been in the business for many years and has a very good reputation in the US. Regarding use on larger boats here's the comment from CPT's website.

Will the CPT steer my heavy displacement boat?
The CPT will generally steer heavy displacement boats from two to eight turns lock-to-lock. The CPT has a powerful motor and gearing, and uses the mechanical advantage of the steering wheel & steering system. When sailing you must be willing to trim and balance the vessel, as you would with a windvane, to reduce weather-helm. The most common vessels using the CPT are typically 30'-50' in length with 10-40,000 lb displacement. The CPT develops up to 86 ft-lbs of torque at the wheel which is enough to handle most wheel loads

Further comments at this link. Common Questions - CPT Autopilot Inc.

 

[RupertW]

By the way, CPT has been in the business for many years and has a very good reputation in the US. Regarding use on larger boats here's the comment from CPT's website.

Will the CPT steer my heavy displacement boat?
The CPT will generally steer heavy displacement boats from two to eight turns lock-to-lock. The CPT has a powerful motor and gearing, and uses the mechanical advantage of the steering wheel & steering system. When sailing you must be willing to trim and balance the vessel, as you would with a windvane, to reduce weather-helm. The most common vessels using the CPT are typically 30'-50' in length with 10-40,000 lb displacement. The CPT develops up to 86 ft-lbs of torque at the wheel which is enough to handle most wheel loads

Further comments at this link. Common Questions - CPT Autopilot Inc.

That looks good but it does miss out on a real advantage of below deck drives which is that if the steering wires snap or (as has happened to me, slip their cables) then the autopilot just does the work without them.

 

[prv]

Only caveat I've heard is that they are strong or fast enough to use in very heavy weather.

I also wouldn't be particularly keen on the clutter of boxes, wires, and belts slung around the binnacle. A proper pilot drive has nothing in the cockpit apart from a 4" flush-mount control head - or nowadays, if you prefer, just a page on your plotter screen.

Rupert's point about the backup to the steering cables is even more significant. My cables are relatively new and the installation seems ok, but I still don't have 100% faith in the system. Knowing that the pilot drive can take over instantly gives me peace of mind.

Pete

 

[skipmac]

That looks good but it does miss out on a real advantage of below deck drives which is that if the steering wires snap or (as has happened to me, slip their cables) then the autopilot just does the work without them.

Like everything boaty, the CPT is a compromise with some tradeoffs. One certainly loses the redundancy of a direct rive with the CPT but for some it will be good solution. The CPT is totally self contained so independent of all other boat electronics. Also much cheaper than a below decks unit and much easier installation.

It might be worth noting that not all below decks units offer the backup helm control. A number of systems use a below decks motor that drives the ships wheel. This is necessary on some boats due to limited space or access to the quadrant. Also many hydraulic systems the AP drives through the existing steering hydraulics so also loses the redundancy.

I also know of some cruisers that keep a CPT as a backup system in case the main AP fails.

 

[skipmac]

I also wouldn't be particularly keen on the clutter of boxes, wires, and belts slung around the binnacle. A proper pilot drive has nothing in the cockpit apart from a 4" flush-mount control head - or nowadays, if you prefer, just a page on your plotter screen.

Rupert's point about the backup to the steering cables is even more significant. My cables are relatively new and the installation seems ok, but I still don't have 100% faith in the system. Knowing that the pilot drive can take over instantly gives me peace of mind.

Pete

Completely agree on all the above and this is why I have a below decks unit. Not recommending the CPT for all nor as the best option but for some the CPT is a good compromise. For one thing $1900 total cost and easy, DIY one afternoon installation.

 

[LadyInBed]

Rupert's point about the backup to the steering cables is even more significant. My cables are relatively new and the installation seems ok, but I still don't have 100% faith in the system. Knowing that the pilot drive can take over instantly gives me peace of mind.

As I posted in a thread re emergency steering, the ARC accept a quadrant driven autopilot as a emergency steering device.

 

[Pete7]

Completely agree on all the above and this is why I have a below decks unit. Not recommending the CPT for all nor as the best option but for some the CPT is a good compromise. For one thing $1900 total cost and easy, DIY one afternoon installation.

Well not quite $1900, because there will be import duty and VAT on top of that, plus the shipping charge, oh and that gets 20% VAT added too. So about the same price as a linear drive.

Having used both the older RM black wheel drive and currently have the newer grey type, I thought the old design was stronger, better plastics and had brass gears. I did sell a mint black wheel drive, that might have been a mistake.

 

[skipmac]

Well not quite $1900, because there will be import duty and VAT on top of that, plus the shipping charge, oh and that gets 20% VAT added too. So about the same price as a linear drive.

Having used both the older RM black wheel drive and currently have the newer grey type, I thought the old design was stronger, better plastics and had brass gears. I did sell a mint black wheel drive, that might have been a mistake.

Well can't help it that you lot over there get stuck with VAT and duties. Move to the US with no VAT and lower taxes, oh but wait. On top of the taxes I have to shell out well over 1000 quid per month for health insurance for me and the wife. Plus another $15-$18,000 per year is deducted from my earnings to pay the social security tax but then they pay me about $26,000 back every year. Never mind, who would want to deal with this screwy system so stay where you are.

Yes the $1900 is about what a new Raymarine linear drive costs BUT I saw an add for a one year old but non working Type 2 drive for USD$400. Met the owner, confirmed it wasn't working so offered him $250 as is. Figured the parts would be worth that as spares. Got it home, took it all apart and discovered a pin had worked loose in the drive, reseated the pin and all good as new. Sometimes you just get lucky.

 

[wazza]

Than you all for your input.
I’m opting for the below deck linear drive Raymarine unit.
Ordered now?️️

 

[dunedin]

Than you all for your input.
I’m opting for the below deck linear drive Raymarine unit.
Ordered now?️️

Great choice. You will soon forget the financial pain, and I expect will often be very grateful for the massively better drive when at sea.

 

[skipmac]

Great choice. You will soon forget the financial pain, and I expect will often be very grateful for the massively better drive when at sea.

Probably said this before, but for anything more than day sailing an autopilot is one of my most favorite things on a boat. First trip after I installed my new Simrad we left port in Florida, turned on the AP, set the sails then sat back and enjoyed a three day sail to North Carolina. Had to trim the sails occasionally but most of the time we hung in the cockpit enjoying the ride, snacking, reading, check position every so often. To me it's like the difference between being on holiday and going to work.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Probably said this before, but for anything more than day sailing an autopilot is one of my most favorite things on a boat. First trip after I installed my new Simrad we left port in Florida, turned on the AP, set the sails then sat back and enjoyed a three day sail to North Carolina. Had to trim the sails occasionally but most of the time we hung in the cockpit enjoying the ride, snacking, reading, check position every so often. To me it's like the difference between being on holiday and going to work.

Yep, if you've got the power on board then the AP is the helmsman and you can busy yourself with all the other stuff.
I did 1600nm from Falmouth to Valencia single handed with just a TP22 as my wind vane failed before the start. It was pretty good in all but the worst conditions. An essential piece of kit and in my case working at it's limits much of the time.

 

[skipmac]

Yep, if you've got the power on board then the AP is the helmsman and you can busy yourself with all the other stuff.
I did 1600nm from Falmouth to Valencia single handed with just a TP22 as my wind vain failed before the start. It was pretty good in all but the worst conditions. An essential piece of kit and in my case working at it's limits much of the time.

Always liked the idea of a wind vane and an autopilot. Use the vane when conditions are right, the AP under power, light air downwind, etc. Problem is the transom of all my boats has been cluttered with silly things like dinghy davits, boarding ladders, solar panels, swim platforms, and the like so just never was practical to have the wind vane.

But very valid point, the AP is one of the biggest power users on passage. With one 235W solar panel, nice sunny days and starting with 660 amp hours of fully charged deep cycle batteries I almost managed the three days before having to crank the engine to add some charge to the batteries. The secret is to not get lazy and neglect sail trim and balancing the helm. That keeps power use by the AP much lower but then I'm betting you already know that.

I just added a second panel and with good sun that might be enough to carry me continuously without running the engine or gennie. Hope to find out in January if Covid permits cruising at that time.

 

[geem]

Always liked the idea of a wind vane and an autopilot. Use the vane when conditions are right, the AP under power, light air downwind, etc. Problem is the transom of all my boats has been cluttered with silly things like dinghy davits, boarding ladders, solar panels, swim platforms, and the like so just never was practical to have the wind vane.

But very valid point, the AP is one of the biggest power users on passage. With one 235W solar panel, nice sunny days and starting with 660 amp hours of fully charged deep cycle batteries I almost managed the three days before having to crank the engine to add some charge to the batteries. The secret is to not get lazy and neglect sail trim and balancing the helm. That keeps power use by the AP much lower but then I'm betting you already know that.

I just added a second panel and with good sun that might be enough to carry me continuously without running the engine or gennie. Hope to find out in January if Covid permits cruising at that time.

We have both a below decks rotary drive autopilot and a wind pilot. With a Duogen on the stern, boarding ladder and Wind Pilot the stern is full. We also have four solar panels on the guardwires so we are not short of power and can pretty easily keep the batteries charged 24/7 without use of the generator or engine on ocean passages. Even so, we enjoy using the Windpilot and when conditions are right it steers us for days on end. There are times when we are doing sail changes or a squall comes through at a different direction and we switch over to the AP. Other times when we have been in rough conditions and the wind is all over the place we have just stuck with the AP. Super easy to do course changes from the shelter of the sprayhood without going outside to tweak the Wind Pilot. One backs up the other.