Which autopilot for tiller steered boat?

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Sybarite

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I've narrowed it down I think - unless somebody has a better idea - to a Raymarine ST2000 or a Simrad TP22.

Both would appear to have roughly the same performance and are the appropriate size for my boat.

I tend to favour the Simrad since my last ST 2000 gave up the ghost 2 months out of warranty. As well as that the TP22 is cheaper : €480 against €629.

How much in the UK?

What would you advise?

Many thanks.
 
pvb said:
I'd suggest you look at a Simrad TP32 instead. It has more thrust, so will be less stressed in normal operation. It also has a recirculating ball system, rather than a simple screw thread. £519 from JG Tech.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I had looked at that but the first reaction was that it might be a little OTT. However, compared with prices in France it's interesting.
 
I moved from a Raymarine to a Simrad about ten years ago. My original Raymarine came with the boat and I'm sure it was under-powered. The Simrad (a TP32) hasn't missed a beat, rain or shine. It's also quieter. Do take note of the displacement limits in relation to the all-up displacement of your boat.
 
If you consider the designed displacement of the OP's Feeling 920 of 3600Kg, then add on the extra weight to be the actual weight, then you will add nearly another 1000Kg. From Simrad's web site it seems both models should, I repeat should, cope. The TP32 has 85Kg of thrust compared to 70Kg of the TP22. As others have mentioned, the biggest weakness of all tiller pilots is ingress of water into the unit.

I sail a Westerly Fulmar with a designed displacement of 4500Kg, but when lifted the crane said it weighed 5500Kg. When changing my old Autohelm 2000 (pre Raymarine), I realised my boat was in excess of the designed weight limit. My options were the Raymarine Autohelm 2000 (again not really man enough for the job) and the Simrad TP32. The Simrad stated it could cope with up to a 37ft yacht, but this seemed very unlikely in my opinion as it was of a similar size as the Raymarine tiller pilot.

After talking to a number of other Fulmar owners, they told me the TP32 would handle most conditions, but used old technology in its control unit. Many recommended the Raymarine SPX5 system, but that had been discontinued and replaced by the Evolution EV100 Tiller. The price was far greater with a list price of £1500. The advantages were the latest control technology and all units except the ram were fitted inside the boat. As I sail singlehanded, this means a more reliable system. So I decided to fit the EV100.

At the time it (2 years ago) was being offered by UK dealers for £1250 (later on special offer for £1100 at the Southampton Boat Show). Similar prices are being offered today by many UK dealers except Hudson who are currently quoting just under £1000. Well the advantage of Raymarine's guarantee is it does not matter where you buy the unit or where the boat it is fitted to is used in the world. So I asked for assistance on this forum for suppliers in Europe at keener prices. Eventually I found Sweden was the cheapest place to buy and the EV100 cost £860 including delivery to the UK. I doubt if the exchange rate is as good now as 2 years ago, but it may still be the cheapest option.

The EV100 is a lot more expensive than a TP52, but I felt it was worth the extra as it would also link to my chart plotter. Fitting was relatively easy and I now use it all the time. I have just sailed from Chatham to the Isles of Scilly and back in 3 weeks, about 1000 miles singlehanded. Other than hand steering whilst berthing, the EV100 was used for about 98% of all sailing miles. This included everything from flat calm to force 7, and the EV100 handled all these condition and all points of sail very well. There were 4 occasions when I used the spinnaker and had speeds of up to 8 knots. So the unit worked brilliantly and was like having another crew member. I very much doubt the TP32 would have performed as well.

I did talk to an owner of an older Bavaria 36 who had to hand steer. I sailed past him with my spinnaker up with the EV100 on the helm. The wind was 30 degrees off the starboard quarter with an apparent wind speed of about 12 knots and I was sailing at about 6½ to 6¾ knots with a quartering sea approaching Beachy Head. He was very impressed with how my boat steered as he did not trust his autopilot in any quartering sea.

My advice for the OP would be consider spending the extra on a system that is very capable of handling a boat like the Feeling 920 in any weather.
 
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My boat seems to eat ST2000's for breakfast.
Had three and all have packed up for different reasons.
Currently got a TP32 and to be honest I don't think its much better.

As soon as finances allow I'm going to get a system from Pelagic in the states
https://pelagicautopilot.com/
I've talked to a couple of Euro based happy customers and I also know that its been used on a couple of the mini transat boats.
It also comes with a 9 axis rate compass, the tiller arm is much stronger and durable than either the ST or TP.
It will also link with NMEA2000 and has worked well with the latest B&G gear.
 
Javelin said:
My boat seems to eat ST2000's for breakfast.
Had three and all have packed up for different reasons.
Currently got a TP32 and to be honest I don't think its much better.

As soon as finances allow I'm going to get a system from Pelagic in the states
https://pelagicautopilot.com/
I've talked to a couple of Euro based happy customers and I also know that its been used on a couple of the mini transat boats.
It also comes with a 9 axis rate compass, the tiller arm is much stronger and durable than either the ST or TP.
It will also link with NMEA2000 and has worked well with the latest B&G gear.
Click to expand...

It looks good but perhaps OTT for the kind of usage I envisage.

Does the Pelagic system have European support?
 
Concerto said:
If you consider the designed displacement of the OP's Feeling 920 of 3600Kg, then add on the extra weight to be the actual weight, then you will add nearly another 1000Kg. From Simrad's web site it seems both models should, I repeat should, cope. The TP32 has 85Kg of thrust compared to 70Kg of the TP22. As others have mentioned, the biggest weakness of all tiller pilots is ingress of water into the unit.

I sail a Westerly Fulmar with a designed displacement of 4500Kg, but when lifted the crane said it weighed 5500Kg. When changing my old Autohelm 2000 (pre Raymarine), I realised my boat was in excess of the designed weight limit. My options were the Raymarine Autohelm 2000 (again not really man enough for the job) and the Simrad TP32. The Simrad stated it could cope with up to a 37ft yacht, but this seemed very unlikely in my opinion as it was of a similar size as the Raymarine tiller pilot.

After talking to a number of other Fulmar owners, they told me the TP32 would handle most conditions, but used old technology in its control unit. Many recommended the Raymarine SPX5 system, but that had been discontinued and replaced by the Evolution EV100 Tiller. The price was far greater with a list price of £1500. The advantages were the latest control technology and all units except the ram were fitted inside the boat. As I sail singlehanded, this means a more reliable system. So I decided to fit the EV100.

At the time it (2 years ago) was being offered by UK dealers for £1250 (later on special offer for £1100 at the Southampton Boat Show). Similar prices are being offered today by many UK dealers except Hudson who are currently quoting just under £1000. Well the advantage of Raymarine's guarantee is it does not matter where you buy the unit or where the boat it is fitted to is used in the world. So I asked for assistance on this forum for suppliers in Europe at keener prices. Eventually I found Sweden was the cheapest place to buy and the EV100 cost £860 including delivery to the UK. I doubt if the exchange rate is as good now as 2 years ago, but it may still be the cheapest option.

The EV100 is a lot more expensive than a TP52, but I felt it was worth the extra as it would also link to my chart plotter. Fitting was relatively easy and I now use it all the time. I have just sailed from Chatham to the Isles of Scilly and back in 3 weeks, about 1000 miles singlehanded. Other than hand steering whilst berthing, the EV100 was used for about 98% of all sailing miles. This included everything from flat calm to force 7, and the EV100 handled all these condition and all points of sail very well. There were 4 occasions when I used the spinnaker and had speeds of up to 8 knots. So the unit worked brilliantly and was like having another crew member. I very much doubt the TP32 would have performed as well.

I did talk to an owner of an older Bavaria 36 who had to hand steer. I sailed past him with my spinnaker up with the EV100 on the helm. The wind was 30 degrees off the starboard quarter with an apparent wind speed of about 12 knots and I was sailing at about 6½ to 6¾ knots with a quartering sea approaching Beachy Head. He was very impressed with how my boat steered as he did not trust his autopilot in any quartering sea.

My advice for the OP would be consider spending the extra on a system that is very capable of handling a boat like the Feeling 920 in any weather.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this detailed response. Perhaps a bit sophisticated for my type of sailing.
 
Sybarite said:
Thanks for this detailed response. Perhaps a bit sophisticated for my type of sailing.
Click to expand...

I have many years of experience with these low end autopilots. And while they will handle your boat under motor in calm weather, sailing is another matter. For that you do need the EV100. There's no way around it. My new ST2000 can only do under sail in light weather on flat water. And for that it has to be tuned and calibrated very well (which I do know how to do).
 
I would go for the simrad. Mine lasted 8 years before it gave up. The raymarine 2000 lasted 3 months for the first then 1 month ( warranty)& now the latest one is kept as a spare & has to have a PVC wrap to keep any spray off it.( must not get it wet!!!!!!!!!)
Whatever you do stay well clear of the AV100. it is rubbish
My boat, a hanse 311 is very lively & in a heavy beam sea will quickly round up. What I have found is that at a certain point the av 100 will then cut out displaying something like " calibration error" or" tiller pilot stopped". It does not- unlike the simrad TP32 or the 2000 gradually bring the boat back on course. This can be dangerous if I am below because it will lock the tiller in one position & if I cannot get to it in time the boat will go through 360 degrees.
Another dodgy instance is if I am hoisting sail. If I am on deck I want to motor straight into the wind but not too fast as the boat will be crashing about. Hence I just want to go slow. However, if I go too slow & the boat goes off course & if the wind catches it there may not be enough speed for the engine & rudder to immediately push the boat back into wind. As a result the AV100 cuts out " tiller pilot stopped" or " off course" is displayed. I have to get back to the cockpit & reset with a sail half up.
This tendency to cut out when it goes off course rather than bring the boat back on line is stupid & dangerous.
Fortunately I have Aeries self steering & that solves the problems.
But the AV100 is carp
 
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I agree the the Simrad 32 is better than the ST2000. But your trouble with the EV100 is obviously because you are doing it wrong. You are going to slow. The ST2000 is dumb as a nut and will only hold the tiller according to a very simple and not so rugged inboard compass. The EV100 use a gyro compass and need you to move the boat forward to get correct data to steer. You cannot steer a boat when lying still.
 
H35 said:
I agree the the Simrad 32 is better than the ST2000. But your trouble with the EV100 is obviously because you are doing it wrong. You are going to slow. The ST2000 is dumb as a nut and will only hold the tiller according to a very simple and not so rugged inboard compass. The EV100 use a gyro compass and need you to move the boat forward to get correct data to steer. You cannot steer a boat when lying still.
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The point I was trying to make is that The St 2000 & the simrad do not cut out. they will bring the boat back on course. The AV100 turns itself off & that is the dangerous point
In the beam seas situation the boat is often making 6-7 kts & in a sail hoist situation 3kts. So it should not be too slow.
 
There's really nothing much to choose between the Raymarine and Simrad tiller pilots. Both have much the same performance and both have much the same problems (water ingress affecting the electronics because the seals aren't good enough). The TP32 will handle heavier boats though

For average usage in average conditions, they do the job although making up a rain cover is well worth it. Which make to choose is largely a matter of what, if anything, it's going to be interfaced to (Eg if the boat has Raymarine electronics already, go Raymarine, if it's Simrad / B&G go Simrad, otherwise whichever suitable model you can get the best deal on)

The EV100 tiller is much better bit of kit (and the poster having problems with it ought to get his setup looked at because clearly something is wrong with it) and much the better bet for heavy use in all conditions

I'm not hands on familiar with the Pelagic system so can't comment on that
 
Daydream believer said:
The point I was trying to make is that The St 2000 & the simrad do not cut out. they will bring the boat back on course. The AV100 turns itself off & that is the dangerous point
In the beam seas situation the boat is often making 6-7 kts & in a sail hoist situation 3kts. So it should not be too slow.
Click to expand...

Well, I would have liked to get out there with you and observe. But my ST2000 does not cope with slow speed in waves at all. The boat goes off course, the preset 20 degrees alarm sets off, and the servo goes all out or all in and starts to flutter.
If your EV100 doesn't keep your boat on course at 3 knots, your set up is off. I am certain of this.
 
H35 said:
Well, I would have liked to get out there with you and observe. But my ST2000 does not cope with slow speed in waves at all. The boat goes off course, the preset 20 degrees alarm sets off, and the servo goes all out or all in and starts to flutter.
If your EV100 doesn't keep your boat on course at 3 knots, your set up is off. I am certain of this.
Click to expand...

It does - for most of the time- keep the boat on course at 1-2- 7 knts or whatever. the point i am trying to get over is that if at any time the boat is knocked off course by a certain amount - about 60-70 degrees , sometimes less, be it by wind or waves the AV100 turns itself off & then leaves the tiller at the angle at which it was turned off at.
After 2.5 years of messing about with all the calibration & set up options I cannot get that to change..
 
We have used the ST2000 for 10 years and the receipt suggests the previous owners used it for 4 years before us. Works perfectly and even copes with turning the wheel in addition to the rudder. I should explain that whilst we have a wheel steered yacht, the ST2000 is placed on a cut down tiller. This will be our first year with a new Evo 100 but the ST2000 is still on board just in case.

For Sybriate, is it cheaper to pop over to Jersey to buy a tiller pilot?

Pete
 
Daydream believer said:
It does - for most of the time- keep the boat on course at 1-2- 7 knts or whatever. the point i am trying to get over is that if at any time the boat is knocked off course by a certain amount - about 60-70 degrees , sometimes less, be it by wind or waves the AV100 turns itself off & then leaves the tiller at the angle at which it was turned off at.
After 2.5 years of messing about with all the calibration & set up options I cannot get that to change..
Click to expand...

Perhaps you could improve the situation by moving the actuation point on the tiller further back a bit towards the rotation axis of the rudder? That would increase the maximum tiller angle for the pilot (but also somewhat reduce the maximum force).
I made a post discussing this option a few months back:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...r-pilot-setup-any-views&p=5907088#post5907088
Have not got around to change anything myself, so far, but still intend to do so.
 
Here is just one more consideration. Where is the nearest repair facility?

One thing is certain, whatever system you buy will break at some point. You don't want to be sending it across an ocean and trying to contact them by telephone in another language. If the nearest repair facility is close to you, fantastic. If it's on the other side of the world you will have nothing but trouble.
 
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