PhilipH
Well-Known Member
Blimey - we have an Eber outlet in aft head where oilie hanging rail located - will be more circumspect about using this in future.
What make oilies BTW?
What make oilies BTW?
Which are the best budget whatevers?
- Thread starter MoodySabre
- Start date
BlueChip
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Blimey - we have an Eber outlet in aft head where oilie hanging rail located - will be more circumspect about using this in future.
What make oilies BTW?
[/ QUOTE ]
We are in our 10th season on BlueChip, have a heater outlet in the heads which warms the oilies (bliss)
We sail in the winter and have had the same breathable oilies (JAG - much better than previous Mustos and half the price) for 10 years with no signs of leakage.
Blimey - we have an Eber outlet in aft head where oilie hanging rail located - will be more circumspect about using this in future.
What make oilies BTW?
[/ QUOTE ]
We are in our 10th season on BlueChip, have a heater outlet in the heads which warms the oilies (bliss)
We sail in the winter and have had the same breathable oilies (JAG - much better than previous Mustos and half the price) for 10 years with no signs of leakage.
castaway
Well-Known Member
I'm curious about the Musto HPX Oilies.. I bought XP Oilies which look like they have been part for part modelled on the Mustos, they look good have lasted 4 years and I think cost about £150 for the 2 main bits. I havn't ever worn Mustos, but I simply can't see where the extra money goes.
In the old days I think you really got what you paid for ... but Im not sure now... basically these 'rip offs' are so good !
All best Nick
In the old days I think you really got what you paid for ... but Im not sure now... basically these 'rip offs' are so good !
All best Nick
fishermantwo
Well-Known Member
I was given a real pair of Crocs for Christmas from my daughter inlaw who is brand conscious. I normally wear the cheap copies and wear out at least two pair a year. They look identical to the cheap ones but are a little of a looser fit in the heel area. I fell arse over tit the other day in them as I was dragging my dinghy about. The soles are wearing already and I suspect they will be smooth in 3 months. I wore an old pair sailing my yacht yesterday and apart from being a bit slippery when wet are exceptional value.
What I would like is a method of resoling them.
What I would like is a method of resoling them.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Agree with most of what you say. I too bought XM foul weather gear, many years ago, OK no Musto label, but, in making an informed choice and using the benefit of all the brands being available under one roof at SIBS, I was able to compare the XM with the Musto. To my surprise I found that the material used for the Musto gear was EXACTLY the same as the XM and as you said probably made in the same country.
I don't agree with your labeling of the SH as a budget product though, that's not right. I does amaze me though the quantities of cheap (crappy?) VHF's hand helds and fixed you see being sold, when quality ones are only a few quid more. In making informed choice (i.e. looking at, handling and assessing quality) when buying products like electronics, just look at the quality of the wires coming out the back of the radio, the controls, the display, isn't it obvious? How can anyone really, honestly expect a £80 vhf to last any length of time? Then there is the usability, ease of use. I spent a week on a charter boat 18 months ago, it was fitted with an XM DCS VHF, now there was a radio, that, well it did work, but, well how could anyone tolerate that quality in long term ownership?
Lets move on to safety gear. For life jackets there are only two makes, Crewsaver or Baltic. But because the swindlries are more concerned with turnover and profit, they do the same thing as the DIY stores, fill their shelves with cheap crap from China, all competing, trying to be the cheapest. There have been magazine tests on lifejackets in the past (perhaps we are due another soon) but PPL still buy cheap ones for their loved ones, but will shell out hundreds on new fishing gear, electronics or a new flat panel TV for the boat, where is the sense of priority? Would you stick cheap budget tyres on your car to hurtle up and down the motorway, to and from the boat? (hell I hope not!).
Final word on lifejackets, just look around when your next in the marina, or in the harbour, see what make lifejackets do the staff wear, do the harbour patrols wear. What makes do the professionals wear? Would their employers not buy budget lifejackets if they could get away with it? If you don't wear a lifejacket yourself, that's your choice, but if you are making a lifejacket available to crew, don't cut corners.
I don't agree with your labeling of the SH as a budget product though, that's not right. I does amaze me though the quantities of cheap (crappy?) VHF's hand helds and fixed you see being sold, when quality ones are only a few quid more. In making informed choice (i.e. looking at, handling and assessing quality) when buying products like electronics, just look at the quality of the wires coming out the back of the radio, the controls, the display, isn't it obvious? How can anyone really, honestly expect a £80 vhf to last any length of time? Then there is the usability, ease of use. I spent a week on a charter boat 18 months ago, it was fitted with an XM DCS VHF, now there was a radio, that, well it did work, but, well how could anyone tolerate that quality in long term ownership?
Lets move on to safety gear. For life jackets there are only two makes, Crewsaver or Baltic. But because the swindlries are more concerned with turnover and profit, they do the same thing as the DIY stores, fill their shelves with cheap crap from China, all competing, trying to be the cheapest. There have been magazine tests on lifejackets in the past (perhaps we are due another soon) but PPL still buy cheap ones for their loved ones, but will shell out hundreds on new fishing gear, electronics or a new flat panel TV for the boat, where is the sense of priority? Would you stick cheap budget tyres on your car to hurtle up and down the motorway, to and from the boat? (hell I hope not!).
Final word on lifejackets, just look around when your next in the marina, or in the harbour, see what make lifejackets do the staff wear, do the harbour patrols wear. What makes do the professionals wear? Would their employers not buy budget lifejackets if they could get away with it? If you don't wear a lifejacket yourself, that's your choice, but if you are making a lifejacket available to crew, don't cut corners.
castaway
Well-Known Member
I was in Ikea Cardiff the other day and picked up a really nice light weight top..water proof looks like gortex finish but I'm sure its not ( even breathable) fleece cuff n collar. £15 in the sale down from £35.
It can hang next to my XM oilies
Nick
It can hang next to my XM oilies
Nick
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Surely the point about "budget" is whether the product offers value for money. Some products particularly in electronics are lower price because they have less features - or put the other way round many products are "overpriced" because they have features that some people may not want, are cheap to provide, but command a premium price for others. Surely it is our job as informed consumers to make a decision that is right for us. Even to the point of making mistakes like I did with a Silva S15!
Ridiculous to try and blame chandlers for stocking "cheap" lifejackets! They all meet the current standards. Again you should ask the question - why are some brands so expensive? My first modern lifejackets (over 25 years ago) were more expensive than my current Seagos - that is more than 3 times in real terms. The new ones are infinitely better! All the chandleries stock a range, and I am sure they would rather sell a £100 lifejacket than a £50 one but consumers have a choice and I thought that was what markets were all about.
Of course, there are differences between the brands, particularly in areas like fit, features such as crotch straps, sprayhoods, lights etc., but again it is often difficult to equate these differences to the price differential. The key feature of a lifejacket is the inflation mechanism, and there is little difference, although some people have prefrences for different designs. Functionally, there does not seem to be any systematic evidence that suggests more expensive jackets are any more effective in their primary purpose.
By all means buy premium products if you like, but don't suggest that "cheap ones" are a sign that you don't care for your loved ones! I would suggest such sentiments have no place in a serious discussion.
Ridiculous to try and blame chandlers for stocking "cheap" lifejackets! They all meet the current standards. Again you should ask the question - why are some brands so expensive? My first modern lifejackets (over 25 years ago) were more expensive than my current Seagos - that is more than 3 times in real terms. The new ones are infinitely better! All the chandleries stock a range, and I am sure they would rather sell a £100 lifejacket than a £50 one but consumers have a choice and I thought that was what markets were all about.
Of course, there are differences between the brands, particularly in areas like fit, features such as crotch straps, sprayhoods, lights etc., but again it is often difficult to equate these differences to the price differential. The key feature of a lifejacket is the inflation mechanism, and there is little difference, although some people have prefrences for different designs. Functionally, there does not seem to be any systematic evidence that suggests more expensive jackets are any more effective in their primary purpose.
By all means buy premium products if you like, but don't suggest that "cheap ones" are a sign that you don't care for your loved ones! I would suggest such sentiments have no place in a serious discussion.
planteater
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Lets move on to safety gear. For life jackets there are only two makes, Crewsaver or Baltic.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only case I can recall where a drowning resulted from a lifejacket failure involved a Baltic LJ.
Lets move on to safety gear. For life jackets there are only two makes, Crewsaver or Baltic.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only case I can recall where a drowning resulted from a lifejacket failure involved a Baltic LJ.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Surely the point about "budget" is whether the product offers value for money. Some products particularly in electronics are lower price because they have less feature
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Navman? A few ppl regretted buying that one!
The essence of my post should be taken from my first paragraph, you have to really investigate to get a real bargain.
Its not just the chandeliers, its the buying public, the obsession to buy something cheaper, the marketing guys pick up on this and then there is a race on to see which outlet is the cheapest. The same has happened with power tools, just take a look at B&Q or Homebase. The mailers that come through the post and with the monthly mags all feature the cheap budget products, the marketing is never aimed at quality buying motives. And just 'cos it has BS.... CE and all the other stamps, that's minimum standards, they cant sell them without.
Look, as an example, set aside the spray hood, crotch strap for a moment, they can be added to any LJ. Someone on another post said that their (Compass??) lifejackets had a habit of going off in spray or rain, that would not only be off putting to someone wearing a lifejacket, but rearming gets expensive at £15(?) a time. If you open up a quality lifejacket you will find the cylinder and firing mechanism is in a little pocket, so water falling from above (rain) cant get in but water coming from below will set off the mechanism. That costs money to build in, but the guy who buys cheaply will soon catch up with what he spends on rearming kits. That's one example that is very visible, I cant comment on manufacturing quality I know nothing of it, but budget goods coming out of China don't have the greatest reputation do they?
Back to the spray hoods. many spray hoods come in a little pouch on the belt, that'll be easy too deploy when in the water wont it? Baltic have their's in the collar, when the LJ is inflated you simply pull the hood over, like on a pram, costs a bit more, but I know which I prefer.
[ QUOTE ]
By all means buy premium products if you like, but don't suggest that "cheap ones" are a sign that you don't care for your loved ones! I would suggest such sentiments have no place in a serious discussion.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, not the brightest of statements, but ppl will still spend money on 'toys' rather than safety.
Surely the point about "budget" is whether the product offers value for money. Some products particularly in electronics are lower price because they have less feature
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Navman? A few ppl regretted buying that one!
The essence of my post should be taken from my first paragraph, you have to really investigate to get a real bargain.
Its not just the chandeliers, its the buying public, the obsession to buy something cheaper, the marketing guys pick up on this and then there is a race on to see which outlet is the cheapest. The same has happened with power tools, just take a look at B&Q or Homebase. The mailers that come through the post and with the monthly mags all feature the cheap budget products, the marketing is never aimed at quality buying motives. And just 'cos it has BS.... CE and all the other stamps, that's minimum standards, they cant sell them without.
Look, as an example, set aside the spray hood, crotch strap for a moment, they can be added to any LJ. Someone on another post said that their (Compass??) lifejackets had a habit of going off in spray or rain, that would not only be off putting to someone wearing a lifejacket, but rearming gets expensive at £15(?) a time. If you open up a quality lifejacket you will find the cylinder and firing mechanism is in a little pocket, so water falling from above (rain) cant get in but water coming from below will set off the mechanism. That costs money to build in, but the guy who buys cheaply will soon catch up with what he spends on rearming kits. That's one example that is very visible, I cant comment on manufacturing quality I know nothing of it, but budget goods coming out of China don't have the greatest reputation do they?
Back to the spray hoods. many spray hoods come in a little pouch on the belt, that'll be easy too deploy when in the water wont it? Baltic have their's in the collar, when the LJ is inflated you simply pull the hood over, like on a pram, costs a bit more, but I know which I prefer.
[ QUOTE ]
By all means buy premium products if you like, but don't suggest that "cheap ones" are a sign that you don't care for your loved ones! I would suggest such sentiments have no place in a serious discussion.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, not the brightest of statements, but ppl will still spend money on 'toys' rather than safety.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Well, I have just checked my new Seagos and guess what? the cylinder and firing mechanism is in a little pocket protected from the spray! Firing because of spray is a downside of using water soluble mechanisms, which is why some people prefer the (cheaper) manual firing or the (more expensive) hydrostatic.
You are right that more expensive products tend to have better features - they have to otherwise nobody would buy them - but often the price differential is huge, far more than the minimal cost of the extra features. As a consumer it is your responsibility to try and sort out what is important to you given your budget.
Of course retailers will emphasise low cost because that is what consumers want, but it is a mistake to automatically equate low cost with low quality or poor value, in just the same way that paying more does not always bring higher satisfaction.
I think as boaters we are quite well served by our specialist press which does provide some comparisons of gear, even if they have difficulty in testing for real. Do your homework and you won't make many mistakes (except Siva S15 - you can see it still hurts!)
You are right that more expensive products tend to have better features - they have to otherwise nobody would buy them - but often the price differential is huge, far more than the minimal cost of the extra features. As a consumer it is your responsibility to try and sort out what is important to you given your budget.
Of course retailers will emphasise low cost because that is what consumers want, but it is a mistake to automatically equate low cost with low quality or poor value, in just the same way that paying more does not always bring higher satisfaction.
I think as boaters we are quite well served by our specialist press which does provide some comparisons of gear, even if they have difficulty in testing for real. Do your homework and you won't make many mistakes (except Siva S15 - you can see it still hurts!)