Which anchor chain for 24 foot, 2600 lb boat

[Greenheart]

If anchoring in mud, I guess chain is a lot easier to brush or hose clean as it comes out of the water, than rope.

I'm still curious how either rope or chain should be tied off, if the boat doesn't have a Samson post or equivalent strong point...

...safe load for 6mm chain may be irrelevant if it (or the warp's strength) is higher than that of the deck hardware or mounting points.

 

[Stemar]

My rope seems to wash itself clean as it comes up. It's the last few metres of chain that make the foredeck filthy.

As for a strong point, doesn't anything more than a small dayboat have at least one substantial cleat on the foredeck?

 

[Greenheart]

I'm thinking of the OP's Achilles 24. They certainly have cleats for mooring warps, but I'm trying to rationalise the claims made, for instance by Jimmy Green Marine, that their excellent 6mm chain is a bit underweight for something as big as an Achilles...

...we know that the 6mm chain's breaking strength is over two tonnes...but are the Achilles mooring-warp cleats (which are only bolted into the glassfibre deck) likely to be able to withstand such loads, especially snubbing shock-loads?

Even if 6mm chain is too light for an Achilles 24, it seems to me the deck fittings would give up well in advance of the rode.

 

[Stemar]

Too light if you're sitting out a hurricane, maybe, but I can think of a lot of places I'd rather sit out a hurricane than a 24 foot boat - or even a 42 foot one. Most of them involve copious amounts of concrete and a decent Scotch

The 12mm nylon rope would break before the chain, but I doubt many boats under 35 foot and over 20 years old have cleats that would stand up to that sort of shock load

 

[slawosz]

I bought 20 m of 6 mm chain + 12 mm 3 strand nylon rope, 30 meters. For now, good enough (I hope). Question: how do I connect rope with chain? Problem is, I don't have open chain locker, only relatively low diameter through deck pipe, so no shackle I am afraid...
I thought about:
- stainless steel screwed chain links, where chain will be looped around spliced loop of rope, or
- endless 8 mm dynema loop, rather longish, say 20 cm

Which option is the best?

 

[Neeves]

We use 75m of a high tensile 6mm chain on a 7t 38' cat and carry a spare rode of 40m of 12mm 3 ply nylon and 15m of 6mm HT chain. We do employ good snubbers for the all chain rode (you don't need catenary you do need something to absorb the kinetic energy of snatch loads, which can be catenary or an elastic bit of rope, longer the better. We keep the spare rode in a milk crate, I coil the rope round the interior of the crate leaving a 'hole' in the middle and simply feed the chain into the hole. Shackles for the anchor are on the spare anchor, but we also have spare shackles attached to milk crate. The milk crate is kept in a locker (in the bow locker, under the bow, in our case). But unless you are infirm - it is hardly heavy.

A crate mean you don't need to have weight in the 'ends'.

Jimmy Green's advice make no sense at all, except to increase turnover. It might do the opposite and drive customers away. I'd love to see them quantify their advise - but quantification is very out of fashion (and thought by some to be totally unnecessary). I think Jimmy Green need to get out more.

There are number of long splices to attach 3 ply to chain - Google will help.

If you are worried about the strength of bow fittings - hopefully your winches are well supported (surely there are strong points somewhere) - terminate the nylon at the winches in the cockpit and run the nylon through a snatch block attached to the bow cleats - most of the load will be on the strong point(s) in the cockpit. Just watch for chafe where the nylon goes outboard.

As indicated - all this rubbish about sitting out named storms etc etc (don't people listen to weather forecasts) - I'd like to know who sits out named storms, or gales even, without finding good shelter and ensuring that the yacht is as snug as possible (and that actual expected winds are going to be less than 25 knots max in the anchorage). We sat out 70 knots - it roared over the hill behind which we sheltered like that of a 747 at full throttle - very impressive and a bit unsettling - we enjoyed winds of 15 knots - but yes it was a Storm forecast - but hardly relevant.

Our J24 and then X 99 sat out typhoons in HK - in a typhoon shelter.

When is a 24' yacht ever going to be subject to snatch loads of 500kg - and even less so when using a decent snubber or mixed rode.

Its all part of the scaremongering of anchors and anchoring.

Jonathan

 

[Greenheart]

Jimmy Green's advice make no sense at all, except to increase turnover...Its all part of the scaremongering of anchors and anchoring.

That's my uninformed inference too. It's disturbing that most boat owners are so non-analytical about the physics involved, that chandleries can keep selling much-bigger-than-necessary chain. 6mm breaking strain is far more than the OP's boat's displacement.

However, the OP's problem may be the lack of an anchor locker - so no ideal place to stow a milk carton, let alone a crate. I thought all Achilles 24s had a pretty generous anchor locker, but I guess not.

Good thought about making the nylon snubber off at the primary winches...which also extends the length of the stretchy element.

I'd still say (from unhappy memories of three-strand kinks and twists) that octoplait or "Anchorplait" line is vastly easier to handle.

 

[slawosz]

However, the OP's problem may be the lack of an anchor locker - so no ideal place to stow a milk carton, let alone a crate. I thought all Achilles 24s had a pretty generous anchor locker, but I guess not.

My Achilles is no 40, early version, and no anchor locker I am afraid. I will consider splice, however 6mm chain is tiny. Besides, I was told that splicing rope into chain is not good thing - I have absolutely no experience here.
How about 8mm dynema loop instead - anchor rope is already spliced.

 

[Neeves]

That's my uninformed inference too. It's disturbing that most boat owners are so non-analytical about the physics involved, that chandleries can keep selling much-bigger-than-necessary chain. 6mm breaking strain is far more than the OP's boat's displacement.

However, the OP's problem may be the lack of an anchor locker - so no ideal place to stow a milk carton, let alone a crate. I thought all Achilles 24s had a pretty generous anchor locker, but I guess not.

Good thought about making the nylon snubber off at the primary winches...which also extends the length of the stretchy element.

I'd still say (from unhappy memories of three-strand kinks and twists) that octoplait or "Anchorplait" line is vastly easier to handle.

We used 3 ply because we have it, and if you are patient it can be coiled neatly in a milk crate. I had thought as its all quite light you could store it down below - but I don't know the yacht. I would agree anchor plait was the way to go - but the OP had already bought the 3 ply.

If the 3 ply is already spliced then I'd simply attach the rope to the chain with dyneema - as you are very unlikely to find a shackle strong enough that also fits the chain. I had Omega links galvanised, lifting chain connectors - made specifically for 6mm chain (Google under Van Beests, Excel, G80 and G100 range). They do fit and will be stronger than the chain. Speak to Geoff at Highand Galvanising or Knox Anchor and if you source the links he might galvanise for you - but get a couple extra.

You have not mentioned your anchor but you will have an issue joining the chain to the anchor (I know - been there done that). The only shackle that will fit the chain will, I suspect, be grossly understrength. Again - speak to Geoff. You can then use the Omegas as the enlarged end links and use a normal shackle to attach them to the anchor.

Splicing, long splice, rope into chain is quite normal. The only thing to watch is that the rope, when used, will be wet and tends to preferentially corrode that part of the chain. Chop of rusty part with rope and make another splice. If JG told you it is not a good thing - I'd ignore them (along with some of their other advise). The first splice should last a few years.

I stand to be corrected - on any and all.

If after you speak to Geoff you have not resolved the issue of connectors, shackles and omega links - post on here, but only after, and I might offer an alternative suggestion. But post why Geoff or you were unhappy - the reasoning might be important. If I don't respond - send me a PM - as I might miss the post if its in a few weeks time.

Jonathan

 

[slawosz]

You have not mentioned your anchor but you will have an issue joining the chain to the anchor (I know - been there done that). The only shackle that will fit the chain will, I suspect, be grossly understrength. Again - speak to Geoff. You can then use the Omegas as the enlarged end links and use a normal shackle to attach them to the anchor.
Jonathan

Thanks for answer. How about using dynema loop again between anchor and chain?

 

[Stemar]

My Achilles is no 40, early version, and no anchor locker I am afraid. I will consider splice, however 6mm chain is tiny. Besides, I was told that splicing rope into chain is not good thing - I have absolutely no experience here.
How about 8mm dynema loop instead - anchor rope is already spliced.

I've spliced my 14mm(?) octoplait line to 6mm chain. It was tight, but not impossible. The splice isn't hard to do - here's how: http://www.sw-marine.co.uk/acatalog/8_strand_multiplait_to_chain_Splice.html

AFAIK, the only disadvantage of a splice is that it makes a bit of a lump which can become stiff over time, and the rope keeps the chain wet, so it will corrode quicker than the rest of the chain, but my first effort lasted well over 10 years of anchoring at least a dozen times a year.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks for answer. How about using dynema loop again between anchor and chain?

I would not do it.

Dyneema is very abrasion resistant along the length of the fibres but very poor across the fibres. Your rode might veer - which will introduce abrasion across the fibres. You could always check each time you retrieve the anchor - but knowing the issue - I would never be comfortable (not comfortable in suggesting it will be 'all right')

So if the rope is taut and pulled back and forth, one of the best textiles available, side to side, others are actually better (but not as a replacement for a steel shackle).

Jonathan