Where to get a tiller arm for an autopilot?

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prv

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I've never thought much of the wheelpilot we inherited on Ariam, and have just splashed out on a second-hand (well, old stock never installed, supposedly) Raymarine linear drive. The outboard end should fit ok on a handy bulkhead (which I'll beef up a little with epoxy and glass), but I need to fit a 10" mini tiller to the rudder stock for the working end.

Any suggestions where to get one? I haven't measured the stock yet, so don't know if I'm looking for a standard size or if I'll need someone to machine the clamping end specially. I've seen them for sale on the Jefa site, but other UK suppliers would be useful. It's difficult to google because any mention of tillers and autopilots tends to just get you tillerpilots like the ST2000 and its ilk.

Cheers,

Pete
 
I woul;d imagine (may be wrong) that your tiller pilot will working hard to steer the boat woith a 10inch arm and against a big rudder (if you have wheel steering) and the wheel and cables. Give it a go by all means but it sounds like a lot of load to me. You might have to think about an auxiliary rudder transom mounted with lots of balance.
You should have an emergency tiller anyway that can be clamped onto the rudder stock. Certainly if you are to meet ny ocean racing equipment standards. Tiller pilot may be OK on a much longer temporary tiller. good luck olewill
 
I think PRV means a linear ram intended for mounting that way, not a tillerpilot intended for a tiller; Raymarine have made several different types. Do Raymarine not sell suitable unmachined tillers for you to get machined to fit your rudder post? Perhaps try companies that make wheel steering systems like Lewmar or Whitlock.
 
William_H said:
I woul;d imagine (may be wrong) that your tiller pilot will working hard to steer the boat woith a 10inch arm and against a big rudder (if you have wheel steering) and the wheel and cables. Give it a go by all means but it sounds like a lot of load to me. You might have to think about an auxiliary rudder transom mounted with lots of balance.
You should have an emergency tiller anyway that can be clamped onto the rudder stock. Certainly if you are to meet ny ocean racing equipment standards. Tiller pilot may be OK on a much longer temporary tiller. good luck olewill
Click to expand...

Nope, most work straight onto the steering quadrant.
 
prv said:
I've never thought much of the wheelpilot we inherited on Ariam, and have just splashed out on a second-hand (well, old stock never installed, supposedly) Raymarine linear drive. The outboard end should fit ok on a handy bulkhead (which I'll beef up a little with epoxy and glass), but I need to fit a 10" mini tiller to the rudder stock for the working end.

Any suggestions where to get one? I haven't measured the stock yet, so don't know if I'm looking for a standard size or if I'll need someone to machine the clamping end specially. I've seen them for sale on the Jefa site, but other UK suppliers would be useful. It's difficult to google because any mention of tillers and autopilots tends to just get you tillerpilots like the ST2000 and its ilk.

Cheers,

Pete
Click to expand...

Do a drawing, take it along to a local engineering shop and have it fabricated - it'll cost about 10% of purchasing ready made. You'll need to use a micrometer to get anything like the right dimensions to fit and I'd suggest using mm and give tolerances. Incidentally 250mm is a bit short, especially if you have a hard-mouthed boat.
 
As other's have written 250 mm is what is normally used.

Installing a separate tiller arm instead of using the quadrant have some advantages.
-Not all quadrants are designed to take the load of the linear drive
-It can give (needed) freedom in installation.
-If the quadrant get damaged you can still use the AP for steering.

I got mine from Jefa www.jefa.com good service and advice from them.
http://jefa.com/steering/products/rackandpinion/tillerlever.htm
tillerarm-big.jpg


I wrote a rather long post/thread about the project here (picture heavy), where I also discuss different options for tiller arm design.
http://www.anything-sailing.com/sho...t-with-a-new-linear-drive?p=147965#post147965
 
Well, thanks for the second mention of Jefa...

Going to my "local machine shop" makes sense, except that I don't know any such place (I'm sure plenty exist around here, I just don't know how to find them). I was hoping someone might recommend one, that's why I posted.

I suppose in a way my "local machine shop" might be Colhel of these forums, he made me a simple little item last year. But that was a five-minute job, I don't know if he's looking for serious commissions. Guess I ought to ask him.

And I stick my tongue out at the ignorami "advising" me on the size of the tiller :). Raymarine are quite explicit about the 10" / 250mm between centres of the rudder stock and the attachment of the ram - did you think I just pulled this number out of my arse? The stroke of the ram is quite limited, if I put it on a long tiller then I wouldn't be able to move the rudder very far, would I?

Pete
 
prv said:
Well, thanks for the second mention of Jefa...

Going to my "local machine shop" makes sense, except that I don't know any such place (I'm sure plenty exist around here, I just don't know how to find them). I was hoping someone might recommend one, that's why I posted.

I suppose in a way my "local machine shop" might be Colhel of these forums, he made me a simple little item last year. But that was a five-minute job, I don't know if he's looking for serious commissions. Guess I ought to ask him.

And I stick my tongue out at the ignorami "advising" me on the size of the tiller :). Raymarine are quite explicit about the 10" / 250mm between centres of the rudder stock and the attachment of the ram - did you think I just pulled this number out of my arse? The stroke of the ram is quite limited, if I put it on a long tiller then I wouldn't be able to move the rudder very far, would I?

Pete
Click to expand...
If you have a look at the thread I linked you will find more on my project, Jefa stock blanks for the tiller arms so you have to specify the measurements and they can do the machining for you. Mine is fastened to the rudder shaft with clamping and set screw - no key / key way making adjustment / alignment easier.
 
knuterikt said:
If you have a look at the thread I linked you will find more on my project, Jefa stock blanks for the tiller arms so you have to specify the measurements and they can do the machining for you. Mine is fastened to the rudder shaft with clamping and set screw - no key / key way making adjustment / alignment easier.
Click to expand...

Yep, I did read that, thanks.

I'd seen the Jefa site the other day although I didn't realise they did the machining too. I assume that's not included in the price on the site? I got the drive itself cheap and am trying to do the whole thing on a budget - though that doesn't mean I plan to skimp on strength or correct design.

Do your set screws locate into any kind of dimple or drilling on the stock, or just clamp against it?

Pete
 
prv said:
Yep, I did read that, thanks.

I'd seen the Jefa site the other day although I didn't realise they did the machining too. I assume that's not included in the price on the site? I got the drive itself cheap and am trying to do the whole thing on a budget - though that doesn't mean I plan to skimp on strength or correct design.

Do your set screws locate into any kind of dimple or drilling on the stock, or just clamp against it?

Pete
Click to expand...

what ever you do make sure the fixing is strong because that ram does not take prisoners, it is very powerful.
 
prv said:
Yep, I did read that, thanks.

I'd seen the Jefa site the other day although I didn't realise they did the machining too. I assume that's not included in the price on the site? I got the drive itself cheap and am trying to do the whole thing on a budget - though that doesn't mean I plan to skimp on strength or correct design.

Do your set screws locate into any kind of dimple or drilling on the stock, or just clamp against it?

Pete
Click to expand...
The tiller arms start at 131 EUR + bore and key 67 EUR check the price list for more details.

I discussed this attachment with Stig Jensen at Jefa as I had two options
1) use the existing key on the shaft (get them to cut key way after my measurements)
2) cut down the existing key and rely on the clamping pressure and a set screw (just use the key for the existing quadrant)

Stig suggested to go for option 2 making installation easier as we could adjust and find the best angle with the parts on the boat.
Clamping pressure and set screw set into a dimple drilled into the shaft would be sufficient (it's important that the diameter of the shaft match the machined hole)

I think that copying the Jefa design requires a good bit of work, but I posted some other pictures of solutions that might work and is easier to make.
I did also look for cheaper solutions but found that if I was to design it myself (and decide on dimensions) and find a workshop to do the work it might not get so cheap after all.
The arm could be made by welding pieces together - but the piece to clamp onto the shaft need machining as you need a tight fit.
If you have friends with the tools & skills?
 
prv said:
Do your set screws locate into any kind of dimple or drilling on the stock, or just clamp against it?

Pete
Click to expand...
This is a poor clamping method that won't last long dealing with the forces found in steering systems; either use a split clamp like the one in knuterikt's picture or have some positive location method like a key and keyway, cotter pin etc. If you must use a clamp screw file or grind a flat in the rudder shaft for it to locate on; dimples tend to create burrs similar to those created when a clamp screw bears straight onto a shaft, making disassembly a pain in future.
 
prv said:
And I stick my tongue out at the ignorami "advising" me on the size of the tiller :). Raymarine are quite explicit about the 10" / 250mm between centres of the rudder stock and the attachment of the ram - did you think I just pulled this number out of my arse?
Click to expand...

I have a question, Pete. If I'd posted those few well-chosen words, the forum's Plodsters would have been speedy to express their supercilious outrage at such rudeness, and would no doubt also have defended the views expressed by those posters you described as "ignorami" (perhaps a tad harsh!).

So, my question is: how come you get away with it?? :)
 
I made up a tiller arm similar to the one pictured above for our last boat. Current one, fitted by previous owner, just has a large flat stainless plate (around 4mm thick) bolted down on the quadrant, with the linear drive attachment pin welded to the plate. Simple and cheaper option and I can still use the emergency tiller if necessary..
 
prv said:
Well, thanks for the second mention of Jefa...

Going to my "local machine shop" makes sense, except that I don't know any such place (I'm sure plenty exist around here, I just don't know how to find them). I was hoping someone might recommend one, that's why I posted.

I suppose in a way my "local machine shop" might be Colhel of these forums, he made me a simple little item last year. But that was a five-minute job, I don't know if he's looking for serious commissions. Guess I ought to ask him.

And I stick my tongue out at the ignorami "advising" me on the size of the tiller :). Raymarine are quite explicit about the 10" / 250mm between centres of the rudder stock and the attachment of the ram - did you think I just pulled this number out of my arse? The stroke of the ram is quite limited, if I put it on a long tiller then I wouldn't be able to move the rudder very far, would I?

Pete
Click to expand...

Call Bob or Dave at BDA marine. In-house machine capability plus a weath of experence fitting auto pilots. They are based in Swanwick.
 
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