Where should I position a Midships cleat?

I have a Moody 31 with midship cleats bolted to the slotted toerail which came with the boat. I have a fixed line with an eye in it which lies on the pontoon and we pick up as we come in and drop it over the cleat and slowly motor forward. She sits alongside whilst we arrange the other warps. I also have a long line from each end of the pontoon which we take turns around the middle cleat acting as a spring each way. We first take the tension off the temporary spring but leave it on the cleat so we effectively have 2 stern springs. The prevailing wind is from the stern of my boat.
I do not know if the M30 has a slotted toerail but if it does you can buy a cleat where the bolts go through the side rather than the base ready made for the job.
 
For short handed mooring it doesn't have to be a cleat, but it's handy for spring lines once you're safely parked. On my home berth, the finger of which is substantially shorter than the boat, i run my spring lines fore and aft from the midships cleat.

When i'm coming alongside i don't use it as a cleat, i use it as a fairlead. I have a long line with a spliced eye, the eye drops over a sheet winch and the line goes forward, around the cleat, back to the cockpit and forward again, then around the cleat and back to the sheet winch. Sounds more complicated than it is, the upshot is i have a long loop of line, both ends at the sheet winch running around the cleat with the middle of the loop at the cockpit. When coming alongside i step away from the wheel and drop the loop over a shoreside cleat, then put the engine back in gear. The line pulls the boat tight to the pontoon/lock etc and the boat can be aligned by adjusting the rudder angle.
The same can be done when coming alongside astern, as i do in my home berth. Just run the loop aft of the cleat/fairlead.
 
Borrow a genoa track sliding cleat.
Experiment with the position to find out where you should attach a real one
(Or just use a sliding cleat if it's just for coming alongside)
 
Slycat said:
Borrow a genoa track sliding cleat.
Experiment with the position to find out where you should attach a real one
(Or just use a sliding cleat if it's just for coming alongside)
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No need. The place where the cleat/fairlead is situated is the place that is pinned to the lock/pontoon when coming alongside with the engine still running and in gear. If this is not at the widest beam you cannot effectively make the boat pivot at this point by moving the rudder. So if the point of the exercise is for short handed coming alongside, it needs to be at the point of widest beam.
 
Yeoman_24 said:
Thanks for some interesting answers. Plenty to think about. Indeed, my intended purpose of the cleat is to assist with short handed berthing.
The toerail cleat looks like an interesting solution but I'm a bit worried about having the weight of the boat under load being held effectively by the toerail. Is this likely to cause any structural problems? Does anyone have any long term experience?
I'm not worried about having a fairlead at this location.
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Slotted toe rails were designed for racing boat Spi guys&sheet snatch blocks. the toe rail is prol the stiffest part of the hull after keel joint

Yes
those cleats have been there 37 yrs so far
 
The spring trick does work with the end fixed anywhere between the back of the boat right through to the stem. Here is an Aussie demonstrating how a line from the quarter can be used to hold the boat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zAa4PRB57M

However you would need a lot of pontoon to work that one, going in forward.

If you go to the opposite extreme and use a bow spring to hold the boat, the bow will be pulled in and you have to use a lot of helm to keep in position. You end up at a strange angle but it may be the only way to get safely onto a very short (French perhaps) dock.

As everyone has said the happy medium is somewhere in between. John Goode reckons somewhere about 1/3rd of the way forward from the stern.

It is not a bad plan to fit a mooring cleat midships for general work; and a second block forward on the main track for the trick mooring line. Leading a line from this to a winch gives you instant adjustment once you get the line ashore
 
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I've fitted mine at about the widest point - on a Moody 33 - as shown earlier it's fitted to the toe-rail. Cleats made by YS if I remember correctly. I did have to drill an extra hole as the slot spacings on mine were too far apart but your Moody 30 may be different.
 
PetiteFleur said:
I've fitted mine at about the widest point - on a Moody 33 - as shown earlier it's fitted to the toe-rail. Cleats made by YS if I remember correctly. I did have to drill an extra hole as the slot spacings on mine were too far apart but your Moody 30 may be different.
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It's not a bad idea to go a foot behind the widest part... from that position, when in gear, the leverage is a bit more definite to keeping you parallel, rather than being "meta-stable"
 
Tranona said:
If you have genoa tracks on the decks you might also consider the Barton cleats that run on tracks. That way they are adjustable (and easy to fit). Would not worry about loads on either tracks or toe rails. Just think of the loads of sails, and toe rails are often used for blocks for spinnakers etc.
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Up to a point. The force needed to deflect a loaded line sideways, even by quite an appreciable amount is an awful lot less than the tension in the line.
 
Yeoman_24 said:
I sail short handed with just my wife on our Moody 30 and I have seen lots of information and practical demos regarding the effectiveness of a midships cleat.

So, hoping to avoid the obvious (ie, I get it is somewhere in the middle!) how do I ascertain the optimum location to install a midships cleat?
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A further thought: the exact positioning of the cleat isn't that critical as you presumably have a fender or two out which will automatically determine (within reason) the widest point of the boat. With our 29 ft boat we just get a midships line ashore (SWMBO steps ashore from the shroud position carrying it) and once that's fixed the boat can't go anywhere and bow and stern lines can be arranged .... no need to use engine power to finally position the boat. Our midships line is only a few metres long to reduce the time spent threading it through or around the shore fixing. It's worked for us for 10 or more years so far.
 
PaulRainbow said:
For short handed mooring it doesn't have to be a cleat, but it's handy for spring lines once you're safely parked. On my home berth, the finger of which is substantially shorter than the boat, i run my spring lines fore and aft from the midships cleat.

When i'm coming alongside i don't use it as a cleat, i use it as a fairlead. I have a long line with a spliced eye, the eye drops over a sheet winch and the line goes forward, around the cleat, back to the cockpit and forward again, then around the cleat and back to the sheet winch. Sounds more complicated than it is, the upshot is i have a long loop of line, both ends at the sheet winch running around the cleat with the middle of the loop at the cockpit. When coming alongside i step away from the wheel and drop the loop over a shoreside cleat, then put the engine back in gear. The line pulls the boat tight to the pontoon/lock etc and the boat can be aligned by adjusting the rudder angle.
The same can be done when coming alongside astern, as i do in my home berth. Just run the loop aft of the cleat/fairlead.
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It does sound more complicated than perhaps it is. lol. But also sounds interesting. Don't suppose you have a picture or maybe take a photo of a drawing please?
 
Yeoman_24 said:
It does sound more complicated than perhaps it is. lol. But also sounds interesting. Don't suppose you have a picture or maybe take a photo of a drawing please?
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I'll sort something, it really is easier than my description, i'm sure :)

OK, the technique was discussed here earlier, in this thread : http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?467249-Berthing-single-handed-at-a-finger-pontoon

I've stolen and modified the picture in post #9. Other than my method of tying the line, the procedure i use is the same as described by Yngmar. My line has a spliced eye, dropped over the winch, as i've shown in the picture. I also take the bitter end around the winch a couple of turns and a half hitch.

If you have a crew member you can still use this method. It's better/safer for the crew member as once they have rigged the line they can stay safely in the cockpit, no leaping off onto pontoons.

I also rig a stern line in a similar fashion. Spliced eye over the stern cleat, loop of line outside the rails, with the bitter end in the cockpit, but not tied off.

You, or your crew member, drops the midships line over a cleat and you motor against is. The stern line is then dropped over a cleat, pulled tight and tied off. I find there is generally no need for a bow line if i'm locking through, but if mooring up this is fitted last.
 

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Daydream believer said:
Personally i would not bother with a fairlead for a midships cleat, because of the way many manouver against the cleat if the line went through the fairlead it could break the fairlead. The Hanse forum often has threads about broken fairleads. This may only be relevant to Hanse of course but they do not make the fairleads. Plus there is no point trying to get a line through a fairlead when trying to moor up in a hurry anyway.

I also find that in a bumpy marina squeaky lines can be a nuisance so the best option is to hook the line through the middle of the cleat, over one horn & the other end away from the boat. Do not bother going through the fairleads where it will squeak. Do all the figure of 8 stuff on the pontoon cleat so that it can be adjusted there. ( I know one should really do a loop at the pontoon but if one cannot sleep then then it is an option)
I never use the fairleads on stern or bow either
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If the fair lead is in danger from loads as described, there's something seriously wrong with the design and fitting of it IMHO.

I'm also concerned if I've understood the implications of 'how you should tie up' as if what I interpret is the case (with respect) none of it is good or 'best practice'. e.g. Looped lines through the cleat on the pontoon as (as far as I'm concerned) poor practice and just wearing your mooring line in the worst place. Threading your onboard end through the cleat? Fifty years of sailing and I can't remember seeing that before. What advantage is it supposed to achieve? Make the end of the mooring line off on the pontoon and have all the spare line onboard. Bow lines threaded onto the cleats in the pontoon or round turn and two half hitches don't squeak or wear the line.

Regarding other people's ongoing discussion about where the best place to mount the midship cleat. The talk of 'finding the place where the boat settles' is a bit of a red herring IMHO. Where it settles will depend on wind and tide and throttle and how much you are steering away from the pontoon. The trick is to get the midships line on and then adjust helm and throttle appropriately.... No black magic involved and all fairly straightforward. The position of the cleat (so long as it's somewhere near the middle and max beam) isn't highly critical.
 
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