Where are all the sailors

[JumbleDuck]

Where are all the dinghy sailors? Well, I suspect that the people who would have sailed dinghies thirty years ago now have windsurfers, or kitesurfers or (shudder not) jetskis. They want fast fun on the water, and they sailed dinghies because that was the only way to get it. But just as lightweight plastic dinghies like Lasers, Toppers and so on killed off the Enterprises and Wayfarers, so newer, lighter, faster things have replaced the Lasers and Toppers.

When hang gliders came in, in the 70s, the British gliding movement was violently opposed to them - to the extent of effectively expelling Anne Welch, the founder of modern British gliding, because she dared to support the newcomers, recognising in them the fun she had in early bungee-launched gliding adventures of the thirties. And what was the result? Hang gliding destroyed gliding in the 70s and paragliding has now done for hang gliding in the same way. By and large gliding clubs are the preserves of old men who can't quite understand what happened - they thought young people really wanted to follow cod RAF discipline and hang around airfields for hours to get ten minutes in the air. They didn't. They wanted to fly, and as soon as cheaper, more convenient ways of flying became available, they were off.

At least sailing clubs didn't generally get snotty with Laser owners (I think) ... but how welcoming are they to the windsurfers and kitesurfers?

Meanwhile the Sea Scout troop of which I was a member for many years is just one patrol in a scout troop. O tempora, o mores.

 

[bitbaltic]

Quote Originally Posted by fergie_mac66 View Post

Penarth?
Of course

The Penarth club is primarily for the young dinghy sailors, am I right? is Raviotis cafe still there?

I guess you mean the Italian next door- it's called 'Romeos by the sea' now sketchy service so dead authentic! But mobbed on weekends. Yes Penarth is essentially a dinghy club but it does it very well. Without moorings it of course can't compete with the bay clubs for cruiser sailors but we love it.

Cheers

 

[Tam Lin]

Where are all the dinghy sailors? Well, I suspect that the people who would have sailed dinghies thirty years ago now have windsurfers, or kitesurfers or (shudder not) jetskis. They want fast fun on the water, and they sailed dinghies because that was the only way to get it. But just as lightweight plastic dinghies like Lasers, Toppers and so on killed off the Enterprises and Wayfarers, so newer, lighter, faster things have replaced the Lasers and Toppers.

When hang gliders came in, in the 70s, the British gliding movement was violently opposed to them - to the extent of effectively expelling Anne Welch, the founder of modern British gliding, because she dared to support the newcomers, recognising in them the fun she had in early bungee-launched gliding adventures of the thirties. And what was the result? Hang gliding destroyed gliding in the 70s and paragliding has now done for hang gliding in the same way. By and large gliding clubs are the preserves of old men who can't quite understand what happened - they thought young people really wanted to follow cod RAF discipline and hang around airfields for hours to get ten minutes in the air. They didn't. They wanted to fly, and as soon as cheaper, more convenient ways of flying became available, they were off.

At least sailing clubs didn't generally get snotty with Laser owners (I think) ... but how welcoming are they to the windsurfers and kitesurfers?

Meanwhile the Sea Scout troop of which I was a member for many years is just one patrol in a scout troop. O tempora, o mores.

Our club has a windsurfing section and two weeks ago there were four of them out on the water, mad fools!

 

[Lakesailor]

From my own experience, the long, long recession has left many sailors with no cash to afford to go sailing - and in this climate you can't even sell the boat. My own isn't getting the attention she deserves as I can't afford the petrol to drive down to the coast!

Rob.

That and the other reasons mentioned highlighting that travelling to sit in a clubhouse with people you may not otherwise choose to mix with, drinking one pint, because you have to drive home and the easy accessibility of virtual friends on-line who you can pick and choose more easily.
There is a whole load of cost, hassle and responsibility in having a physical relationship with other like-minded people.
There is also a move away from standard Mon-Fri jobs with dependable hours.
Everything stacks up against the club ethic these days.


I just looked at the web-site of my old motorclub in Beverley.

This says it all really.

5th February 2015----- Geriatrics Night----- Ferguson Fawsitt Arms------ Don't move around too quickly, it confuses them...

 

[fergie_mac66]

Quote Originally Posted by fergie_mac66 View Post

Penarth?
Of course

The Penarth club is primarily for the young dinghy sailors, am I right? is Raviotis cafe still there?

I havent been there for 3 years

we wentto france and didnt get all the way back we were moored at cardiff marina tho and only visited penarth club a couple of times

 

[fergie_mac66]

I guess you mean the Italian next door- it's called 'Romeos by the sea' now sketchy service so dead authentic! But mobbed on weekends. Yes Penarth is essentially a dinghy club but it does it very well. Without moorings it of course can't compete with the bay clubs for cruiser sailors but we love it.

Cheers

we used to like a walk on the pier and look for fossils on the rocks to the south of the pier

 

[ianc1200]

I've joined an inland dinghy club to keep my newish Smacks Boat sailing during the winter - Burghfield near Reading. Today and last Saturday helping out with the working party, and shocked to see how many youngsters out last week, about thirty, today about 10. Bearing in mind how cold it is, I think that's pretty good. During November the Sunday races seemed to have about 30 out on the water. Perhaps people are concentrated around one or two large clubs?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Our club has a windsurfing section and two weeks ago there were four of them out on the water, mad fools!

That sounds great ... I really wish there wasn't quite the division which there often is between the standers-uppers and the sitters-downers in sailing. I keep the Hunter 490 at a water (and other) activities centre, and when the winds get really strong all the staff go windsurfing. Mad b*ggers, but it looks fun.

 

[Seajet]

Where are all the dinghy sailors? Well, I suspect that the people who would have sailed dinghies thirty years ago now have windsurfers, or kitesurfers or (shudder not) jetskis. They want fast fun on the water, and they sailed dinghies because that was the only way to get it. But just as lightweight plastic dinghies like Lasers, Toppers and so on killed off the Enterprises and Wayfarers, so newer, lighter, faster things have replaced the Lasers and Toppers.

When hang gliders came in, in the 70s, the British gliding movement was violently opposed to them - to the extent of effectively expelling Anne Welch, the founder of modern British gliding, because she dared to support the newcomers, recognising in them the fun she had in early bungee-launched gliding adventures of the thirties. And what was the result? Hang gliding destroyed gliding in the 70s and paragliding has now done for hang gliding in the same way. By and large gliding clubs are the preserves of old men who can't quite understand what happened - they thought young people really wanted to follow cod RAF discipline and hang around airfields for hours to get ten minutes in the air. They didn't. They wanted to fly, and as soon as cheaper, more convenient ways of flying became available, they were off.

At least sailing clubs didn't generally get snotty with Laser owners (I think) ... but how welcoming are they to the windsurfers and kitesurfers?

Meanwhile the Sea Scout troop of which I was a member for many years is just one patrol in a scout troop. O tempora, o mores.

Maybe what is missing is school sailing courses ?

I went on several of these with my school and learned a lot about skippering ( including how to throw seaweed into girl crew's mainsails resulting in shrieks ).

Nowadays all I read about is schools cutting their PE to 2 hours a week and selling their playgrounds & sports fields to developers.

 

[Dave-Shafa]

Here in the frozen north, dinghys and small boats are quite active in : Cromarty - Fortrose - Invergordon -

Inverness Marina is a 150 berth marina thought I probably sailed the most often last year. Many go to the west but may as in most ports just seem to sit and fade.

 

[PhillM]

Hmm this thread doesn't really chime with what I'm seeing.

Yes the average age of the clubs I know makes me feel young but:

Our club is seeing an expansion in both cadet and adult dinghy sailing.

Half of the uni students I know / employ sail. Some because of parents owning boats but most because of team building events run by their uni.

We have 3 under 25's at work who are also club members and one is a DS . Note our business is IT and nothing to do with marine.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think we have had a slight decline in the number of people taking part in dinghy racing but where we are noticing the difference is the number of vacant drying moorings for small cruisers. The deep water moorings are in demand ( being much cheaper than a marina) but drying moorings less so. As these would probably be for smaller, cheaper, entry level (for some) boats it seems to point to a declining interest or hard financial times.

I fear the pricing structure might have something to do with that - didn't the cost of moorings recently change from being based on which row of moorings you were on (D upwards being tidal) to charging on LOA regardless of the mooring occupied? This might explain why drying moorings are rather less popular these days.

 

[Tam Lin]

I fear the pricing structure might have something to do with that - didn't the cost of moorings recently change from being based on which row of moorings you were on (D upwards being tidal) to charging on LOA regardless of the mooring occupied? This might explain why drying moorings are rather less popular these days.

The pricing of the whole membership structure changed for last year but in essence, you are right. I am doing a price comparison with other moorings at the moment. We shall see what we shall see.

 

[William_H]

I can only report the situation at our club (East Fremantle Yacht Club). The number of boats racing has not really changed so much in 30 years. (perhasp increase a bit) We have a dinghy section racing Saturdays and a Keel Boat section racing Sundays. The club owns a marina of about 100 boats in pens of fixed pilings and jetties. This marina as you can imagine brings in a ot of money but also costs hugely in maintenance. Then there is a social membership for local folks who want a good pub and resuraunt. About 1200 members in this category help to provide income for the club and work for a lot of people. There are resuraunt type meals availble most evenings witha Wednesday night all you can eat for 11 squid or a thursday night themed meal changing each month for 8 squid. Plus of course the bar.
Now sailing has been for many years supported by sailing schools for both adult on KBs and juniors on dinghies. The current training boat for juniors is the 'Open Bic" a tiny one person boat looking like a cross between a wind surfer and dinghy but with CB rudder boom etc. They are available for lease for racing and there is a good competition for kids.Of interest is that in recent years a class of dinghy known as "Sabre" has taken off. This is a one person mainsail only dinghy more like a dinghy than a Laser and far easier to sail. From introductiona few years back now to 60 registered witht he club and usually 20 racing on Saturdays. Any class is introduced on the basis of, if there is enough boats (interest) then lets make it a class. Unfortunately the huge range of classes I think is a detriment to dinghy sailing.
Adult KB trasining is done by memebers who have gone to the trouble and cost of getting qualifications for instructing. This is necessary for acreditationas a Yachting Australia training centre. We use outr own boats and whilst courses are expensive about 150 squid for 12hrs over 3 sat mornings we get enough customers for a course 3 times per year with about 12 people each time. The course is expensive becuase instructors have pay insurance and acreditation fees to YA and buy about 20 squids worth of books for each student. Then instructors get paid 15 squid per hour. The whole school does get people in to sailing as crew and often also as boat owners.
It is possible for a club to put up a non acreditted sailing school. You would need to check out insurance. This can be very cheap and involve experienced members teaching in their own boats. We did this a long time ago whenYA had not really got its teeth into training. We had one instructor acreditted and at times we had 50 students on 12 boats of a Sat morning. All for at the time 22 squid for 12hrs. That was a way to really get the cutomers and members in.
We have run one school for adults on dinghies very succesful but a shool propsed for next weekend on has not had any applications so a lead balloon.

Anyway regarding your club. It is individuals who can make the difference. If one person says "I will set up a sailing school or orgaise racing" you can then get like minded people to help. It can take effort but can be really satisfying. Just bewailing the decline won't do anything for the club.

(just as rider we do have beautiful sailing weather almost all year round, no tides to worry about and no real impact from GFC so perhaps it is all much easier here) olewill

 

[Tomahawk]

Our club has fantastic sailing waters, accessible from all states of tides & fairly good facilities.
Years ago the dingy park was packed with every type from GP's to Graduates, Ospreys , Hornets etc the list goes on
A weekend would always see 30 plus boats out, Even Thursday night series had 20 boats for a while
But now the dinghy park has 50% of the dinghies just laying unused & uncared for & there are often more people running the event than actually taking part.
Even with 500 members (& falling) Class racing is no more & has become a hash of handicap racing in the slow or fast fleets
Our club has to survive on open meetings for cash & they are gradually falling in numbers
There are more cruisers but even these seem to sit on the moorings all year doing nothing

The story i am told can be repeated all round our coast

So is dinghy sailing a dying sport, has cruiser sailing overtaken it for participants, or is that slowly dying as well?
Are people sailing less or more even if they do actually own a boat?
Is it because they cannot get crews?
Is it because work pressure is greater - I find that hard to believe
Is it because there are more things to do- if so why are organisations such as Round Table dying?
Or is it that, as a nation, we are not so interested in the sport any more

Which club? Blackwater or Croich?,

 

[JumbleDuck]

Maybe what is missing is school sailing courses ?

I went on several of these with my school and learned a lot about skippering ( including how to throw seaweed into girl crew's mainsails resulting in shrieks ).

Schools here still do sailing courses, but there are heavy cuts coming and I wouldn't bet on them lasting.

 

[Daydream believer]

Which club? Blackwater or Croich?,

The river Blackwater
But I am told that it is the same on the River Crouch
The fall in open meeting numbers suggests it is very wide spread

Another post suggested that some clubs have active windsurfers section
20 years ago we had a very active windsurfing section (20 plus)with a professional as well as a world champion in the class & a number of open meeting supporters ( forget the title of the series) I feel that had an adverse affect on dinghies as they shunned the dinghy classes due to the ease of setting up & just going plus the excitement.As a result when it became boring it died, but not all went back to dinghies . If they had stayed in dinghies it might not have had such an effect. No proof just a thought.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Is it because work pressure is greater - I find that hard to believe

Believe it... I would say I'm working at least 30% more hours now than I did when I started work 30 years ago... I think people are time poor these days.. they simply can't justify the amount of time owning a boat entails...

 

[fergie_mac66]

I would agree with that.The time is disappearing. I'm sure Einstein missed something in his equations cause time seems to get faster every year.

 

[Birdseye]

Our club has fantastic sailing waters, accessible from all states of tides & fairly good facilities.
Years ago the dingy park was packed with every type from GP's to Graduates, Ospreys , Hornets etc the list goes on
A weekend would always see 30 plus boats out, Even Thursday night series had 20 boats for a while
But now the dinghy park has 50% of the dinghies just laying unused & uncared for & there are often more people running the event than actually taking part.
Even with 500 members (& falling) Class racing is no more & has become a hash of handicap racing in the slow or fast fleets
Our club has to survive on open meetings for cash & they are gradually falling in numbers
There are more cruisers but even these seem to sit on the moorings all year doing nothing

The story i am told can be repeated all round our coast

So is dinghy sailing a dying sport, has cruiser sailing overtaken it for participants, or is that slowly dying as well?
Are people sailing less or more even if they do actually own a boat?
Is it because they cannot get crews?
Is it because work pressure is greater - I find that hard to believe
Is it because there are more things to do- if so why are organisations such as Round Table dying?
Or is it that, as a nation, we are not so interested in the sport any more

If our club is an example, the realtively small proportion of keen dighy sailors in a club ( inevitably many boat owners have just moved onto something else but still kept their boat) go from club to club like a flock of birds attracted by the keen racing. We used to have a really keen flying 15 fleet but hwen the two top racers in the fleet moved to a reservoir nearby , all the other left mostly to go to the same place. After a ten year blank, a couple of new members started winter sailing in flying 15s and before you know it we had a fleet of 10 boats again. Dinghies are all about racing and competition.

Work / time pressures are different. Youngsters these days are more reluctant to join self help clubs and more inclined to simply pay for a spell sailing when they feel like it. My kids charter but arent interested in dads boat or joining a club.