when will these keels be ready to fall off

When I sailed in N Wales (which admittedly is a bit hard on Centaurs as many moorings are drying to sand) one club I was in had 2 Centaurs+1 Pageant where there was cracking between the floors bad enough to sink two of the boats and almost sink the third. I was also there when a visiting boat, a Westerly 33 had one of his keels fold under the boat. I think you need one that has had strengthening work already done and to choose the layout variant that is the stronger choice. Good luck wth your search! I like outboards as they are very well suited to a catamaran but I personally think you would be potty to consider the inboard well conversion job on this particular boat without the sponsorship from Tohatsu and PBO, good weeze though for a freebie engine-respect!
 
ahabdonal said:
When I sailed in N Wales (which admittedly is a bit hard on Centaurs as many moorings are drying to sand) one club I was in had 2 Centaurs+1 Pageant where there was cracking between the floors bad enough to sink two of the boats and almost sink the third. I was also there when a visiting boat, a Westerly 33 had one of his keels fold under the boat. I think you need one that has had strengthening work already done and to choose the layout variant that is the stronger choice. Good luck wth your search! I like outboards as they are very well suited to a catamaran but I personally think you would be potty to consider the inboard well conversion job on this particular boat without the sponsorship from Tohatsu and PBO, good weeze though for a freebie engine-respect!
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ah well.... now there you have it

PBO paying the same £100 a page rate as when I dream up stuff about the Humber, wells or Duck punts

Tohatsu have offered me a great price - so I can sell the engine at the end for the same money I paid for it

Wessex Resins are in for a day's labour and sticky unguents

if it works then a lot of Centaurs will go this way

I am after a boat with keels that have already had the work done

so is one layout stronger than the other?

why?

what is the difference between the spade and the skeg rudder?

two other advantages of this plan are

1/no lobster pot fear

2/I can carry a spare engine

I am now reasonably certain - assuming Roger's measurements are correct - that I can use a stad long shaft and do not need an extra long

so...we shall see who is nuts

if this works then a lot of people will have to eat humble pie

if it does not work then I will have to eat humble pie but opn the upside I will have had the use of a Centaur for the summer, seen the Shetlands, will have sailed with my family and will then have lost the £1500 for the boat

as you can understand I have had a lot of emails on this subject

one bloke said that he is very excited about the plan because if it works then it will allow him to buy a Centaur

so..... anyone know of a nearly dead Centaur

East is better than West

South is better than North

D
 
Isn't the cheap knackered Centaur trap that not only will the knackerisation apply to the engine, but to other safety-critical parts of the boat as well.

The fact that your target dead-cheap Centaur is assumed to be mouldering on death-row in corner of a boat yard somewhere probably implies that it has many things wrong with it, above and beyond a bust Volvo.

If it were just an engine problem, odds are someone (existing owner or new purchaser) would have rectified it.

It's likely to be an accumulation of expensive problems which have condemned it to moulder, and you'll end up with a money pit, even after the outboard has been transplanted in.

There again, I'm being glass-half-empty and you may get lucky and find a spiffing Centaur which is mouldering for other reasons, like death or poverty of the owner. In that bargain hunt you'll be up against other putative Centaurists who are hanging on for the right deal to surface.
 
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Twister_Ken said:
Isn't the cheap knackered Centaur trap that not only will the knackerisation apply to the engine, but to other safety-critical parts of the boat as well.

The fact that your target dead-cheap Centaur is assumed to be mouldering on death-row in corner of a boat yard somewhere probably implies that it has many things wrong with it, above and beyond a bust Volvo.

If it were just an engine problem, odds are someone (existing owner or new purchaser) would have rectified it.

It's likely to be an accumulation of expensive problems which have condemned it to moulder, and you'll end up with a money pit, even after the outboard has been transplanted in.

There again, I'm being glass-half-empty and you may get lucky and find a spiffing Centaur which is mouldering for other reasons, like death or poverty of the owner. In that bargain hunt you'll be up against other putative Centaurists who are hanging on for the right deal to surface.
Click to expand...

See http://www.woodenships.co.uk/motor-sailers/31-hurley
Like this executors sale!
 
dylanwinter said:
the boat has been ashore since 1996
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There are two potential issues. It could just be that the keel-hull join is a bit manky and needs resealed. That's reasonably straightforward: prop keels, undo bolts. lift off boat. remove old sealant, wire brush and prime keels. squirt on new sealant, lower boat back down, do up bolts. I understand that people do this in a day, though I'd probably pencil in a weekend for it.

However, you need to make sure that the hull has been strengthened around the stubs. Somewhere between Laurent Giles and Westerly Marine Construction some rather optimistic ideas about the bending behaviour of GRP shells set in, and they were a bit skimp, to put it mildly, with the layup. Sorting that is a well-established job, but rather more involved than simply resealing the keels. You should be able to tell by looking at the keel bolts whether the work has been done. If it hasn't then walk away, sell a kidney or scratch a week out of your diary.
 
JumbleDuck said:
There are two potential issues. It could just be that the keel-hull join is a bit manky and needs resealed. That's reasonably straightforward: prop keels, undo bolts. lift off boat. remove old sealant, wire brush and prime keels. squirt on new sealant, lower boat back down, do up bolts. I understand that people do this in a day, though I'd probably pencil in a weekend for it.

However, you need to make sure that the hull has been strengthened around the stubs. Somewhere between Laurent Giles and Westerly Marine Construction some rather optimistic ideas about the bending behaviour of GRP shells set in, and they were a bit skimp, to put it mildly, with the layup. Sorting that is a well-established job, but rather more involved than simply resealing the keels. You should be able to tell by looking at the keel bolts whether the work has been done. If it hasn't then walk away, sell a kidney or scratch a week out of your diary.
Click to expand...

this one has the old spade rudder

so, are you saying that the really old ones do not need fixing

Dylan

PS I expect to walk away from a lot of boats

I have already digitally walked away from a few
 
If you have the resin man available why not consider fitting the new webs yourself ? When we had our 31' Westerly bilge keeler done they dropped the keels first but I think you may be able to just go in the slings, loosen keel bolts, attach the webs and then tighten the keel bolts again (this is assuming that the keels have not already splayed out to any significant amount). Edit - you might have to wedge some timber between the keels to maintain the right amount of 'splay'.
 
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Storyline said:
If you have the resin man available why not consider fitting the new webs yourself ? When we had our 31' Westerly bilge keeler done they dropped the keels first but I think you may be able to just go in the slings, loosen keel bolts, attach the webs and then tighten the keel bolts again (this is assuming that the keels have not already splayed out to any significant amount).
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I am hoping to find one that has already been done

lots to choose from

D
 
Storyline said:
Probably best but if you got your man to help you would at least know that the job had been done properly with the latest resins .....
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I only have him for one day

nad that will be spent doing the well

so sadly strenghtening keels is not going to happen

which is why I want to know the difference between good ones and bad ones

as long as they have been done a few years in the past then I am then assuming that they have been done right

I have had a poke around and posted a couple of questions

very quiet forums

and I cannot find much info

URLs would be great if you have any

D
 
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dylanwinter said:
.....

as long as they have been done a few years in the past then I am then assuming that they have been done right
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You will be able to see the new webs inside and a visual check that the keels have been lined up correctly. It might be an idea to find one that is in tip top condition and measure the distance at the bottom between the front of the keels and then again at the back so you have a reference to measure your new boat to. IIRC there was someone in our boat yard whose Centaur had its keels re-bedded and one was at a slightly different angle to the other.
 
Keels falling off?
Could happen to anyone I suppose, but more likely when the basic layup is too skimpy.
This being the case, the layup will likely be skimpy everywhere.
Makes me query the basic idea of Centaurs being 'tough old brutes'.

The skeg versus spade rudder is fairly simple.
Putting a skeg in front of the rudder makes the mounting stronger.
I once had a spade rudder (not on a Centaur) snap off while inadvertently surfing down a wave in a tide race.

As to the inboard/outboard engine....
Outboards are great, but no substitute for an inboard diesel.
Engines are just that - engines - mechanical devices that, if maintained and set up properly will go on virtually forever.
Given a decent design in the first place of course.

In your case Dylan me ol' mate, as in many other people's cases, it comes down to money.
So - have a look at other decent condition non-Centaurs, and/or sell Katie L.
Or find a rich sponsor.

Whatever you do, enjoy yourself, 'cos that's what sailing is supposed to be all about.
:D
 
ahabdonal said:
See http://www.woodenships.co.uk/motor-sailers/31-hurley
Like this executors sale!
Click to expand...

Eeek! A new contender in the 'ugliest boat' category.

HM-sail.png


Even at £2k it looks overpriced considering the work required to get it shipshape.
 
if it does not work then I will have to eat humble pie but on the upside I will have had the use of a Centaur for the summer, seen the Shetlands, will have sailed with my family and will then have lost the £1500 for the boat


I thought that the whole point of this exercise was to secure a vessel with better accommodation but also one that would cope as necessary with the seas and the strong currents of the scottish coast and isles.So if the installed outboard in well proves inadequate you will also be cursing as you go and waiting more between tides and weather.So not simply a financial punt.
 
dylanwinter said:
this one has the old spade rudder

so, are you saying that the really old ones do not need fixing
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Sorry, I was perhaps unclear. I think all Centaurs had the keel issues - but I wouldn't care to blame either LG or WMC for the problem. Most of them will have been fixed by now. As I understand it, it's worst if the boat dries out, so if you can find a Centaur which has always lived on a swinging mooring or in a marina, it might not matter tooooooooo much if the work hasn't been done.
 
dylanwinter said:
I cannot find much info
D
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Got much on this week? If not then jump in the car and spend the time looking over as many as possible, ashore and if possible afloat. As you'll see, the keel strengthening differs from boat to boat so it's difficult for anyone online to give a definitive answer. Basically they are just glassed in horizontal support and their purpose is pretty obvious once you've seen them. Access is via the under seat lockers. You can also check out the state of the through hull fittings while you are there

I think you just have to assume that if it's been done and there are no obvious faults then jobs a good 'un.

You're going to need to be very familiar with the centaur if you are planning to buy a 'tlc' special with minimal tears, so the more examples you see the better, both good and bad. I doubt there's much going on in yards at the moment so 'surveying' 10 or so examples in detail should be possible and will give you the best chance of success should you find one within your budget.

All the best
 
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