When will Insurers recognise that Europe goes beyond Brest / Elbe ?

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Refueler

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I have a UK boat in Latvian waters (Baltic) - a full member state of EU.
Try and get insurance cover - even basic minimum ! OK if you don't mind hefty premiums, hefty excess on the policy.

Usual replys to applications :

Sorry only boats geographically cruising between Brest and Elbe. (That's most common one given)

Sorry we only insure boats that are in UK waters.

Sorry we only insure boats that are UK based and we allow a limited period outside geographical range. (That's usually just a few days if you're lucky).

Local Latvian are even worse .... despite being owned by German / Swedish co's :

All just say - No, register boat under Latvian Flag and we will consider your application. Note consider ... as a friend works in one of the co's - we asked her about this and she reckoned they were being nice and it would be unlikely they would agree !

Yes I can get cover but to get the basic 3rd party and crew cover means I pay near enough Full Comp price because they don't want to give basic cover. OK - so go Fully Comp. The cheapest premium is near 3x my last premium when boat was in UK late 2006. And the limitations in the policy are ludicrous. One that has direct impact on my cruising - is the Not North of 60 N ... Well that just cuts out one of the most beautiful cruising areas - the North Alands and Gulf of Bothnia.

I realise that geographical limits were necessary in past - but surely now that boating has evolved so much ... EU and borders expanded - surely the Insurance Co's should start to ask for real cruising ground ranges instead of the old arbitrary listings. Would even be better if the allowed a proper extension of range for a specific period on request.

What really annoys me though is the in a sense practical refusal to allow me to enjoy a UK boat in anothers waters - the req't of me to change flag to another - involving expense and some really stupid rules. I have no objection to national laws, but if you saw the req'ts to register here ... you'd not blame me for refusing.

So who has good basic cover for outside Brest / Elbe range without paying stupidly for it ?

Anyone else in similar 'boat' ?
 
Mine (SAGA 'cause I'll old) goes down to La Rochelle. That was the limit they gave me from the start - I didn't have to ask. Useful too since we do actually go past Brest from time to time.

<edit> They also extended it one summer to Portugal for a small sum and a modest increase in excess. As it happened we didn't go but that's another story</edit>
 
Re: When will Insurers recognise that Europe goes beyond Brest / Elbe

Usually they're quite flexible. Just phone up and ask (and I'd get the answer in writing, say an email would do). It's understandable that long-range sailors/ wilder seas pose a higher risk for them, but if you just tell them what you want to do they can be more flexible than you'd think from the initial policy terms.
 
Depends what you mean by 'paying stupid'. I had a quote for the Baltic area for around £360 from Premier [and they were obviously very keen to get my business]. In standard insurance terms, I'm a nightmare: not UK based, no fixed mooring, single handed sailing to furrin parts, and so on. They were prepared to cater for all that.

In the end, I went back to Pantaenius as their cover in terms of loss due to 'fair wear and tear' was better - but they were more expensive.

Is £360 excessive? For fully comprehensive and a £60,000 boat, I don't think so. Boat repairs are notoriously expensive! Try insuring a £60,000 car for that!

I'm not even based in an EU country - I'm not based anywhere!
 
Yes, I think "Pants" do Bergen to La Rochelle as standard.
By the way cnh would you mind confirming what you pay for the Pantaenius cover? I pay the figure you mentioned after a £200 deduction for no claims.
This is on cover for £32,000. So I may have to look into things!
If you prefer give me a PM.
 
I have no problem insuring my UK owned and registered boat in Corfu with a UK insurer - Bishop Skinner. And got comparable quotes from Saga, GJW, HKJ and Pants.
 
I went with Pants when I bought my boat in Portugal - they were the only ones who offered cover from Gibraltar north without loading the premium. A couple of years later they restricted the northerly limit to Wick to Bergen but a phonecall (no extra premium) extended this to cover the Shetlands and from my dealings with them I would expect no problems if I wanted to cruise to the Lofoten Islands or Spitzbergen.
This year I attempted to find a cheaper quote - very easy until a comparison of terms:
<ul type="square"> [*]UK and Europe from Elbe to Brest excludes Ireland (and I'm not sure about the IoM) [*]Singlehanded [*]24 hour [*]Swinging mooring [*]365 days a year [*]Consequential damage from wear and tear [*]Racing [/list] ...and I'm sure there's more. Result - I'm back with Pants.
 
Insurers prices are generally controlled by the cost of them doing business in your chosen country if something goes wrong. If they dont have good relationships with (in your case) agents in Latvia, they will load you.

You could try local companies in other countries (i.e. Germany, Sweden) or alternatively try Yachtmaster. They have been good for us in getting extended areas.
 
I pay 10% extra to sail in the Western Baltic, as far as Gdansk, with Bishop Skinner. I don't know about the Eastern sea but imagine it would be about the same again.
 
Q - If I show you yours, will you show me mine?
_____________________________

Not to unmake your day, Sir, but Saga insured? - You are almost certainly paying a premium over equal cover. So show you mine - Craftinsure! (N & G policies, same geographical cover, with excursions outside)

Our Latvian-based friend has discovered one of the immutables in life: LT insurance in another jurisdiction comes only at a high price, if at all.

PWG
 
[ QUOTE ]
Depends what you mean by 'paying stupid'. I had a quote for the Baltic area for around £360 from Premier [and they were obviously very keen to get my business]. In standard insurance terms, I'm a nightmare: not UK based, no fixed mooring, single handed sailing to furrin parts, and so on. They were prepared to cater for all that.

In the end, I went back to Pantaenius as their cover in terms of loss due to 'fair wear and tear' was better - but they were more expensive.

Is £360 excessive? For fully comprehensive and a £60,000 boat, I don't think so. Boat repairs are notoriously expensive! Try insuring a £60,000 car for that!

I'm not even based in an EU country - I'm not based anywhere!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the sort of figure I was quoted by Pants for a 10K cover of boat and personals. Plus it stopped at 60N.

The German outfit that backs the Latvian crowd in Riga wanted to review the application themselves instead of their Latvian partners ... they halved the boat value and increased the premium to similar fig to Pants.

It's daft really - as there significantly less risk over here as few boats, no tides and weather is reasonable most time. Not exactly exposed UK !!
 
It doesnt surprise me that you have problems. The UK insurer has to think to himself "how do I deal with a customer resident in Latvia if we get a claim" and unless he has some good agent there, the game isnt worth the premium. And what would be his premium income from Latvia to support an agent? Very little in reality.

Its a bit more surprising that the local companies wont cover you - not even sure it legal as a form of discrimination against foreigners, though most other countries dont seem to be quite so PC as we are.

And 60 deg North! Probably they are worried that if you get that far you'll fall off the end, or finish as a packed lunch for the wolves and bears.
 
Discrimination ? Latvia is master at it !! EU told them to clean it up before membership .. did they ? No - covered it up .....

I could tell you some stories but will leave those for another time !
 
UK and Europe from Elbe to Brest excludes Ireland (and I'm not sure about the IoM)

It did with ours, so I had to explain that living in W Wales going to Ireland was much easier than going to France or along the south coast. They did give us an extension for the whole of Ireland for free!!!!

But when it came to crossing Biscay and into the Med'................................!!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
UK and Europe from Elbe to Brest excludes Ireland (and I'm not sure about the IoM)

It did with ours, so I had to explain that living in W Wales going to Ireland was much easier than going to France or along the south coast. They did give us an extension for the whole of Ireland for free!!!!

But when it came to crossing Biscay and into the Med'................................!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Just looked at our Pantaenius Policy it reads and i quote "European rivers and inland waters. European coastal waters up to 200 nm off the coast, Mediterranean waters, including the staits (Gibraltar and Dardanelles). excluding waters north of Bergen"

So i don't know why yours excludes Ireland/IOM or anywhere in the EU?!!?! Unless your going to tell me that's something I've missed in the small print?!
 
We extended our Saga (again) one beyond the Elbe (our northern limit was Oslo, i can't remember the eastern one) with a quick phone call and (I think about £30). However, that was just for a few months. I don't expect they would be so happy if we were resident in Latvia - besides, you have to be old!
 
Re: When will Insurers recognise that Europe goes beyond Brest / Elbe

[ QUOTE ]
Just looked at our Pantaenius Policy it reads and i quote "European rivers and inland waters. European coastal waters up to 200 nm off the coast, Mediterranean waters, including the staits (Gibraltar and Dardanelles). excluding waters north of Bergen"

So i don't know why yours excludes Ireland/IOM or anywhere in the EU?!!?! Unless your going to tell me that's something I've missed in the small print?!

[/ QUOTE ]

My Pants policy says the same as yours.... but initially it only covered me as far as 20E, (or something like that). When I said I might go further than 20E, they changed things as above.

Richard
 
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