when to reef (novice)

[cpthook]

hi, just come back from a great sailing holiday from Corfu down to Lefkas and
beyond. We had F4/5 on the nose most of the time, some days N/NW, others
S/SW (ironically whenever we wanted to go in those directions). The boat was
usually heeled over with genoa and main out, to the extent that the saloon table
plopped out of its socket (luckily while nobody was near it!) Heading to windward
just a few degrees from the "stall point" we would steer fractionally into the wind
whenever heel increased to an uncomfortable point. Downwind we would turn to
leeward in a similar manner. Is this a valid technique for controlling heel and
speed or a "novice special" ? On a couple of occasions helming mistakes were
made and we flew off on some hair-raising reaches.

I have a feeling we should have reefed in case someone went over the side and
we had to reach quickly to recover them in a controlled manner. Is this correct?

We also found we could furl the genoa more easily going on a dead run, rather
than previously trying it straight into the wind. Is this standard practice?

 

[sailbadthesinner]

This is a big subject and there are numerous ways of dealing dependent on
boat
crew experience
conditions

If squalls are few and far between they can be dealt with by spilling the wind out the sail, ie slacking the main traveller or sheet.
if you are having consistent weather helm and losing steerage then you should have reefed. If the crew are all lookinf terrified you might also wish to reef.
In general the time to reef is the first time you wonder if you should.



I would point out there is no definitive way. it all comes back to who taught you and how m uch experminenting you have doen since then.
If you were in greece then experience would suggest that it would be a bendy toy or or other plastique. they tend to heel over and round up.

I tend to reef the main first then look at the Genoa on those, mainly cos you can reef them whilst under way quite easily with on e person on the mast and everyone else in the cockpit


Down wind i have to confess I take in the genny first cos it is easier to do under way.



...It was like that when i found it!

 

[AndrewB]

Heading to windward a little to respond to each gust is a valid technique when racing, but usually too much bother when cruising. If you had to stay permanently pointed up, with the front of the genoa shaking, then you had too much sail up.

Turning downwind when off the wind also works, but is poor practice. What you are doing is 'stalling' the sails, and will go much slower. There is a small risk that if you have too much sail up, turning suddenly off the wind will start the yacht rolling uncontrollably from side to side, ending in a sudden gybe and a broach - dangerous.

Your aim should be to reef to keep the boat moving at maximum speed. As a rule of thumb, if the yacht is sailing with its lee rail (i.e. the downside edge of the deck) underwater when you are sailing into the wind, you probably have too much sail up, and will go faster with less.

I hope you were well hooked on, Cpthook!

 

[Cornishman]

Sailing close hauled with too much sail often results in unnecessary leeway even before the other symptoms are obvious. Easy check: look astern at your wake and if it makes an angle to your fore and aft line you are making leeway.

 

[ToMo]

Hiya Mike
PROPER JOB re the handle change.
Martin

TôMö

 

[Twister_Ken]

Well, you got away with it so who's to say you were wrong.

But next time, in a spirit of experimentation, try a reef when the crests of the waves just begin to break white (if your're going to windward), or when the fronts of the waves are half covered in white when you're going downwind.

 

[Mirelle]

Really simple and foolproof rule

"If you are thinking about reefing, reef!"

Put a reef in straight away when you first think of it. You cna always shake it out again, but it is MUCH easier to put a reefi in early, and shake it out again, than to put a reef in when you have left it late and the boat is struggling.

 

[Gunfleet]

re your heading to windward. Boats are thought to be at their most efficient when sailed by and large, which is to say quite a bit free of their absolute ability to proceed to windward.

 

[jollyjacktar]

The watchword is \"Caution\"

Always be cautious. Err on the side of caution. The sea is unforgiving. You just can not pull to the side of the highway and have a think about things. In all matters regarding safety at sea being overcautious is not the behaviour of whimps and girlies, but the mark of a good seaman. Work within your capability and double the caution. Always the best to move to reduce sails and put in reef or two as well, especially if you suspect that the weather will deteriorate. If in any doubt put in a reef or two. If things improve, it is easy enough to shake out the reef, but if you have not put in a reef soon enough you can find things very difficult and dangerous.

Being overcanvassed does not make you go faster, unless you are a madman in a planing hull skiff, windsurfer or suchlike as once you have reached hull speed, then that is your limit. Too much sail will heel the vessel unnecessarily increase your drift to the lee, make things hard to control and as well as add unnecessary extra strain to equipment. Also makes things very uncomfortable and difficult to control. You will be amazed at the improvement and at how pleasant things can be when you are under reduced sail in bad weather.

 

[Cornishman]

Hi, Martin

'Tis 'ansome, innit? What a performance, tho'.
Mike

 

[ccscott49]

The answer I always learnt was "early and deep" or "when you first thought about reefing, reef"

 

[JamesS]

Just to add---- 'If you are thinking about taking a reef out - keep thinking about it'

Cheers

 

[pkb]

It's all been said in the various responses in this thread. A boat reefed down for the prevailing conditions will always sail better and more comfortably than one that is overcanvassed. When I started sailing in the eighties I was told by the skipper who trained me that you should reef when you first think about it and take it out only after you've had a cup of tea.

Peter

 

[extravert]

Without a doubt this sounds like you had too much sail up. Modern boats go best to windward by keeping the angle of heel less than 20 degrees from vertical, which isn't very much. Many bulkhead mounted compasses have a clinometer scale (tilt meter!) at their bases to measure this one. If your saloon table was flying around it sounds more than 20 degrees of lean. Pinching when beating (slightly stalling the sails by heading to windward) is a valid temporary means of spilling some wind in a gust, but only temporary. If you have to do it often, then reef. Pinching has these disadvantages...

it's very ease to over-do it, and completely lose way

it requires a very fine touch, no good for a novice helm

and it requires mind numbing concentration to do it for any length of time. Leave it to the racers.

As for going downwind, this is where you have to be more careful. If you have too much sail going to windward, you know it, but downwind you might not be so aware. The yachtmaster course rule is don't carry more sail downwind than you would be prepared to use if you had to turn around and go upwind, and that is good advice for a novice in F4/5. Turning upwind to control heel is safe, but turning downwind to control heel is risky because...

if you have too much heel on a reach you definitely have too much sail up and if you had to go to windward for some reason you would find it very hard

heading upwind will eventually stop you whilst heading downwind won't (you will just go fast)

you will be at risk of an accidental gybe

Consider this scenario...

You are on a screaming reach with full sail up in a F5. A squall comes in and things start getting a bit frantic. The novice helm has been told to head downwind to control the heeling. He turns downwind onto a run at 7 knots. The skipper gets up to start reefing the jib. The boat rolls, accidentally gybes as the helm did not see what was coming, and knocks the skipper overboard unconscious. The remaining crew eventually manage to turn the boat round but it is unsailable to windward with the amount of sail up. The only option is get all the sails down and motor back, but they are still drifting downwind of the MOB and have lost sight of him. Chance of survival of the MOB? Virtually none.

So in conclusion, controlling heel by changing direction is generally not a good idea. Reef instead.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Racing - reef for the lulls i.e. optimum sail up during lulls, over-canvassed during gusts but dealt with using racing tactics/pinching etc.

Cruising - reef for the gusts i.e. optimum sail during gusts, under-canvassed during lulls but dealt with by warm feelings of comfort and safety!

 

[yachtcharisma]

It's always very suprising how you go as fast if not faster with a reef in when the boat starts heeling as much as you seem to be describing. Largely because when you're heeling right over with water rushing past and the boat bouncing around you feel as though you *must* be going fast. Stop, put in a reef (or two) and start sailing again - and it all feels very leisurely and sedate by comparison. Then you glance at the log and find you're actually going half a knot faster than you were before... Never ceases to amaze me!

Cheers
Patrick

==================
Sailing a Corribee
vzone.virgin.net/patrick.fox
==================

 

[dickh]

Reef early, I always reef when the side decks are ocasionaly awash - much easier to do it then than when the wind gets higher and every one is clinging on for dear life. This I have proved time and time again when cruising in company with a friend who has a larger boat, I always reef early and go just as fast, frequently faster than my friend who rarely reefs(unless I'm on board).
Reefing the genoa is easy if it is let go and not drawing.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[pas]

Reef Early every time! Your boat may look great if it is heeling over but it is not sailing efficently. Working the boat is more difficult and there is more chance of losing crew or items below flying about. If its F4 before you start out put a reef in, get used to how the boat feels if you feel safe shake the reef out, you may find though your speed drops and you are working harder to control the boat.
If you feel overpressed i would allways head upwind to depower the rig not to leeward.
You should be able to furl the head sail on any point of sail but you should first take the pressure off by releasing the sheet some what