When is it worth getting new sails?

[bdh198]

I have a Sailfish 18 which has been in the family for years and I am considering the possibility of replacing the mainsail.

The thing that has prompted me to consider a new sail is the fact that the sail appears to be really baggy (presumably the sailcloth is quite stretched) and it really doesn't take much of a boom angle off the centreline for the sail to be wrapping round the spreaders. It not only looks ugly but will be affecting the performance.

I'm not sure precisely how old the sail is, but it is at least 10 years old and could be as much as 15 years old. There is nothing special about it, just cheap standard Dacron cloth. I would be looking to replace it with a similar cheap cloth.

However, I am conscious that the boat is only used for day sailing, and my sailing skills are not the skills of a polished racer, and I therefore wonder whether this should be a priority. Am I likely to notice much improvement in sailing performance with a new sail in these conditions?

 

[DFL1010]

When you find yourself asking this question

 

[laika]

However, I am conscious that the boat is only used for day sailing, and my sailing skills are not the skills of a polished racer, and I therefore wonder whether this should be a priority. Am I likely to notice much improvement in sailing performance with a new sail in these conditions?

Probably. When I bought my boat it had sails of unknown age but the main was at least 8 years old (and complete rubbish according to one sailmaker I spoke to) and the genoa at least 10 years old. Whatever I did I couldn't get a decent shape into them. The main was worse than the genoa. I'd sit there on a long passage with my sail trim book wondering what I was doing wrong but resisting buying new because a bad workperson blames their tools and I wasn't good enough at sail trim to justify a new set of sails.

Eventually I bought some anyway. Fitted after 4 years of struggling to improve my sail trim with the old ones.

Pointing *so* much better, speed noticeably better on most points of sail (and this on a heavy liveaboard cruiser). Crucially though all the controls now do what the books tell me they're supposed to and I can get down to the business of improving my sail trim by watching for the tangible results of my tweaking.

I'll argue that decent sails are a bigger benefit for those looking to improve their sail trim than those that are already good.

 

[John 32i]

I put off buying a new genoa for ages on the basis that we could still 'sail' with the old one but the new sail did make a huge difference; pity we sold the boat soon after though!

 

[ronsurf]

Is it worth getting the old one re cut to remove the bagginess?

 

[Fantasie 19]

However, I am conscious that the boat is only used for day sailing, and my sailing skills are not the skills of a polished racer, and I therefore wonder whether this should be a priority. Am I likely to notice much improvement in sailing performance with a new sail in these conditions?

Yes....

Your sailing skills are a constant - you'll be the same whether your sail is new or old, but new sails are always better than old/baggy sails, so yes there will be an improvement - only question is "how much"

 

[jwilson]

Perhaps look for a racing dinghy mainsail of about the right size - really serious dinghy racers regard about half a dozen regattas as the life of a sail.

 

[laika]

Your sailing skills are a constant - you'll be the same whether your sail is new or old

That's counter to my personal experience as stated in post #3. If you can't get a good shape into sails and they don't respond to controls the way they're supposed to, you don't learn. If they do what they're supposed to and give you feedback as to whether you've got it right or wrong, your skills improve. I argue (you may disagree) that new sails give you more of an opportunity (which you may or may not chose to take) to be a better sail trimmer than old baggy ones do.

 

[Fantasie 19]

That's counter to my personal experience as stated in post #3. If you can't get a good shape into sails and they don't respond to controls the way they're supposed to, you don't learn. If they do what they're supposed to and give you feedback as to whether you've got it right or wrong, your skills improve. I argue (you may disagree) that new sails give you more of an opportunity (which you may or may not chose to take) to be a better sail trimmer than old baggy ones do.

You're a better sailor now, but immediately after buying the new sails you were the same old you..... I'd agree new sails also give you the chance to improve as well though

 

[prv]

When you find yourself asking this question

+1 - bit like deciding when to reef

Pete

 

[BelleSerene]

Without a doubt, a new suit of sails after what you describe will feel like sailing a new boat.

Does she feel somewhat overpowered and hard to tame in strong winds? She'll feel controllable again.

Does she tend to broach on a beat in 20 knots plus? That'll pretty much stop.

Do you ever find yourself wanting to sail closer to the wind? You'll be able to.

When the world calms in the evening and you get that feeling that this is what sailing should always be like, is your tranquillity torn by impatient crew wanting to motor home? Problem solved, once your boat responds to light airs as she was designed to.

Do it: do it now, and enjoy your new boat.

 

[EdWingfield]

I replaced mine when my sailmaker refused to carry out more repairs.

'Budget for new sails Ed.'

 

[Greenheart]

It's nice to read such agreement on a theme, even if it spells out big bills.

My sails must be similar in size to those of the OP's Sailfish...though his genoa will surely be bigger.

My Osprey's sails are very ancient. I think at some point one of her previous owners acquired a different Osp's mainsail (different numbers) but the result is that the original is in better condition than the numerically newer one.

All academic since I doubt either is less than 25 years old...

...the best course is clearly to get new sails; I wonder how new (and how expensive) is justified by the non-racer.

I don't doubt Mr Wilson's account of keen racers renewing their sails after several meetings...

...but if after such hard racing, the sails aren't fit for competitive applications, I wonder if they'd really be sufficiently better than my present wardrobe, to justify handing over what's sure to be a significant wad of cash.

A part of me is content to reflect that any and all problems I have getting the best out of the Osprey, can be blamed on the canvas rather than my deficiencies as skipper.

 

[bdh198]

Thanks for all the helpful responses over the last couple of days.

I really would like to get a new mail, but when I hear of people sailing with 25+ year old sails I start to worry that I'm the one not getting the performance out of the sail! I've been quoted £400 for a non-fancy replacement, and I'm starting to think I should just go for it and hopefully get a nice surprise in increased performance.

 

[Fantasie 19]

That's a good price.. I was quoted over £600 for a main for a 20 footer... and that from the only one (of three) lofts who replied...

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted

 

[johnalison]

That's a good price.. I was quoted over £600 for a main for a 20 footer... and that from the only one (of three) lofts who replied...

It sounds like a good buy. Just don't expect miracles. I generally have in mind the sort of shape the sail ought to be in a given wind, and if I can't contrive to get this shape I start to fret. If you think the main is baggy, you are probably right, and if you can't get the draught forward when it starts to blow, the handling will suffer, and you will notice the lack of drive, although the boat is feeling pressed. It then becomes a matter of what you want to afford..

 

[Greenheart]

I think I know why my Osprey's sails are so ancient...

...a new mainsail is at minimum £699.

That's double what I paid for the whole boat. I wonder to what extent the performance of a boat that cheap can be rejuvenated by a sail that expensive?

The more exotic fabrics were over £1000. I'm sure anyone who has used new sails will assure me that it's worth paying for, and I could probably be persuaded to splash out, were it not for the likely short period of perfection (as suggested by racers buying new so often).

I'd like to be sure that effectively re-engining my boat would give several seasons of very noticeable improvement, before the sail becomes just another in my selection of rolled-up reserves.

At the very-low-budget end of sailing, this is a monumental outlay.

Daydream Believer, why did you delete your post? If I had £4k to spend on new sails after only six seasons, I daresay I'd do so - your readiness to, indicates that the benefit is worth paying for. :encouragement:

 

[adwuk]

dancrane - I would get in touch with the Osprey class and see if any of the racers have an old suit that they want to get rid of. Top boats will cycle their sails pretty regularly and sell off suits. Major event cast offs will appear to you as new, and an old training set (probably still better than you currently use) will be sold off at pretty reasonable prices.

Here is an example: http://www.ospreysailing.org/cms/index.php/for-sale/equipment-for-sale/131-p-b-sails-for-sale

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks Adwuk, good thinking.