When is a project boat not a project boat ?

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AlistairM

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I have been closely following the progress and more recently completion and launch of the PBO project boat hantu butu (sp?). Whilst I am very appreciative of the evident skill and effort involved in the project I do have one or two reservations around the term "Project"

My idea of such an activity is to purchase a wreck that bearly floats, and purchase only the absolute essentials that are needed to get afloat, often begged borrowed or purchased at the absolute cheapest price possible.

I am making a huge assumption however I perceive that hantu burtu has been restored using the latest products (probably at a reduced price in recognition of the associated publicity), and obviously worked on by highly skilled professionals who "got it right first time", possibly with back up from the said suppliers.

My suggestion for PBO (and this is solely my own personal view and by no means intended to offend or criticise) is prehaps following a similar track with someone of more "basic" means, to see what the pitfalls and issues that are raised, may be more relevant to the comminal garden boaty bod?

I am alone in this or is there a similar perception amongst people.

Please PBO dont take offence !!! this is only me trying to gauge general opinion.

Thanks one and all in advance
 
To be fair, I think all the work that you would expect to be done by a DIY owner was done by the PBO staff. Bits of welding, etcwere farmed out to professionals, but that's hardly surprising - welding stainless to achieve a fair result is not a skill many of us have. At the conclusion, the list of costs were at purchase price and annotated where the manufacturer had supplied FOC with a typical street price added to the total. Their own fair comment was that with material costs of around 8.5k and two years labour it was certainly not cost effective, but any owner would feel great satisfaction, indeed they seem keen to take her sailing at any excuse.

Unfortunately, you end up with a rather uninspiring Snapdragon when the recession (after seven years - really?) means that much cash could buy you a smart, fully equipped cruiser racer which still had an inboard engine.

Rob.
 
I think you're spot on - though I'd add 'someone with a more urgent desire to go sailing than existing ability to repair'. My own experience of boat ownership is that I learn about how to deal with the next problem as and when it occurs, and often these days by asking about it on this forum, and hoping for some wise responses - I've not been disappointed yet. Perhaps PBO should do a series about someone with limited skills and knowledge who keeps an ageing boat on a budget, and learns along the way. I'd volunteer except I'd be embarrassed at having my limited knowledge exposed in print - but I suspect I'm no different to many folk who keep an old boat because they need to sail ....
 
I think the hantu biri project has been very interesting and has provided a valuable series of articles about the refurbishments carried out by boat owners on a budget. Such as myself. Ben and David could no doubt write a book about the ups and downs of refurbs although they have always done things properly first time rather than trying shortcuts and having to do it again. You wouldn't expect them to show how to do bodges would you? and the costings given at the end assume that all materials were purchased at market price. They did get advice and assistance from suppliers but that was justifiable to show how things should be done correctly. I think it's been interesting reading.
 
I think the OP is being unfair to PBO in his criticism. For sure, if it were you or I who had picked up a somewhat delapidated boat we would almost certainly not go to the lengths they have, but that is hardly the point. From day one the Hantu Biru project was intended to show the possibilities and maybe inspire existing boat owners into tidying up their somewhat tired boats using some of the techniques illustrated. It was an exercise in what is possible, not necessarily a recommendation that everybody should go out and do it, as they clearly concluded that the financial side did not add up, and had the figures puiblished, including the true costs of materials donated to them.

I think they also made it clear that they did the lions share of the work themselves, so perhaps a little fact checking would have been in order before building a case against the project on assumptions that are incorrect. I'm not trying to have a go, but thats patently an unfair criticism of the people who did the project.

As the owner of a small 1986 yacht it has certainly set me thinking about what measures I could take to brighten my boat up a bit, without breaking the bank.

It certainly made a refreshing change from turning an ageing Snapdragon into either a bonfire or a chainsaw massacre victim which is what often happens. In any event somebody will get some enjoyable sailing out of the boat.

Tim
 
I seem to remember seeing the boat when it was first photographed and in my opinion it was certainly a project boat at that point in time. Having purchased the boat PBO then set about restoring it, each stage of the restoration was photographed and published in PBO. Many readers won't have a 100% project boat but will be interested in one or two aspects of the rebuild. Therefore PBO have had to ensure each aspect of the total restoration is fully explained and the work is done to a good standard so that it's readers can see what the best way of tackling a specific job is.

The result of course is the entire boat is gradually restored to a much higher standard than the boat will ever be worth or to a standard many of us would aspire to if we had purchased a project requiring total restoration for a budget not exceeding the final value of the finished boat. But for PBO, the expense is less of a consideration with the cost justified over a series of articles for publication.

Regards using specialists for the work, certainly PBO have taken specialists advice but I formed the impression (rightly or wrongly) staff had done much of the actual work themselves.

I enjoy the articles, I don't think you can ever justify the costs and depth of restoration for this particular boat, but I just enjoy reading the articles and learning from them!
 
The first thing to do is define project

"I have a project, I am refurbishing a boat" is not the same as "I have a project boat" which is a much more fundamental task.
 
A French magazine did a special issue once where they took a Sylphe in a throwaway state and brought it up to new condition.

They admitted that the project was not economical but that was not the point. They were able to show how to attack each aspect of a renovation in detail.
 
AlistairM,

I also think you're spot on.

Re normal reality, ' when does a boat become a project boat ? ' - NOT when first describing it to SWMBO pre-purchase, most definitely once it's on the drive/at the club !
 
You also need to remember when it comes to cost that many people can more easily afford to spend money in small amounts over a longer time than to fork out the lot at the beginning for a finished product. It also allows you to get to know your boat in a way that many people never do. I thought the series was excellent in highlighting lots if individual jobs and just what you can achieve. They did a great job and, after all, it is Practical BO.
 
Oops sounds as though I have caused offence - this was not my intention. I have a bit of a self confessed issue with sailing being available for all and the costs etc. Whilst I still hold strong to the concept that to restore a project boat means different things to different people, I personally (an it is only my own personal view) felt a better more rounded feature would be to follow an individual of less skill and facilities.

That said if the purpose of the feature was to outline the specific steps and practical tasks involved with restoring various sections of the boat, then that would put a different slant on it, and it becomes more of an instructional feature which is obviously very detailed and well placed.

Please accept my apologies if this has been mis interpretated as a critiscm of the highly skilled and knowledgeable PBO team, as this was absolutely not the intention.
 
Sybarite said:
A French magazine did a special issue once where they took a Sylphe in a throwaway state and brought it up to new condition.

They admitted that the project was not economical but that was not the point. They were able to show how to attack each aspect of a renovation in detail.
Click to expand...

This hits the point exactly, because PBO did much the same, and have admitted that it was not really an economically viable project. The finished boat has a market value less than its cost, but they were able to show the stages of renovation and write detailed articles.
 
AlistairM said:
Oops sounds as though I have caused offence - this was not my intention. I have a bit of a self confessed issue with sailing being available for all and the costs etc. Whilst I still hold strong to the concept that to restore a project boat means different things to different people, I personally (an it is only my own personal view) felt a better more rounded feature would be to follow an individual of less skill and facilities.

That said if the purpose of the feature was to outline the specific steps and practical tasks involved with restoring various sections of the boat, then that would put a different slant on it, and it becomes more of an instructional feature which is obviously very detailed and well placed.

Please accept my apologies if this has been mis interpretated as a critiscm of the highly skilled and knowledgeable PBO team, as this was absolutely not the intention.
Click to expand...

I didn't - and I agree with your original suggestion..... really enjoyed the series of articles but I would challenge PBO to now go out and get another similarly aged/condition of boat, but this time show us effective/safe bodges, shortcuts, alternative materials (from B&Q rather than swindlery) etc. I enjoyed the series immensely, but laughed when I saw the end price - it's about as far from my reality as the test on the "budget" 37 footer in this months mag (£70K+... budget???? really??) :D
 
The point about spreading the cost is an important factor. All my boats have been project boats of one kind or another and all done over a period on a tiny budget using boat jumbles as the main source of equipment. My current boat has been stripped to the hull and is having a total rebuild. But this time using all new equipment so not a budget job, but it's what I have always done and in the end I have a boat that is exactly what I need and not what some designer of production line clones thinks I need.:cool:
 
Thanks for the assurance, and glad to hear its been accepted in the manner intended. Incidently PBO is my comic of choice and I really look forward to each edition, but as you pointed out some articles (37ft for 70k etc.) are a little "out of touch".
 
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