NorthernWave
New member
But at 300gt you need a pilot to enter many ports and harbours. Surely a thing meant for ships!!??
Chris
Chris
When is a boat a ship?
- Thread starter btlynn
- Start date
stevebrassett
Well-known member
A ship goes on the water,
You put gravy in a boat.
You put gravy in a boat.
aswade
New member
yachts vs. ships etc.
The 500gt limit is not really anything to do with the boat vs. ship nomenclature. it is the old cut-off point for MCA regs between a yacht and a cargo/passenger ship in their classifications.
If your yacht is flagged in a "Red Ensign" state, you need to meet MCA code to charter if it is under 500 gross tons. If you don't want to charter, you don't have to meet those requirements and you can choose what national classification society's rules to meet (ABS, Bureau veritas, RINA, Det Norke Veritas etc.)
Over 500gt, you have to meet ISM requirements, i.e. SOLAS regs for passenger ships, which are much stricter.
There are other trigger points besides gross tonnage- for a "Red Ensign" yacht, if you want to carry more than 12 passengers, you need to meet SOLAS Class III regs for passenger ships. That's why most large charter yachts can only carry 12 guests, even if there is room aboard for more. There are ways around this, LADY MOURA is Bahamas registered because Bahamian regs allow up to 36 passengers for a yacht instead of 12.
There's an upper tonnage limit for the MCA large yacht code as well, I think it is 3,000gt, above that and you have to comply with passenger ship codes. With so many large yachts being built these days, there really should be a change in the regs to accommodate the reality of today's market.
Technically, anything above the upper limit (which as I said, was only 500gt before the MCA revisions last year) is not a yacht, but a cargo ship unless it is certified as a passenger ship, since anything larger than the upper limit for a yacht that is not certified to carry more than 12 passengers only fits into the cargo ship category! So if you had a 200' yacht that displaced 1,000 tons, they'd have said: Not a "yacht." Not a "passenger ship." oops, only category left is "cargo ship." so that's what she must be. Shows you how silly the classifications can be.
OCTOPUS for example, is almost 10,000gt, so she has to meet SOLAS regs for passenger ships, including the carrying of proper lifeboats, not just life rafts. I believe the code says that the lifeboats must be ready to deploy, which is why they must be exposed on davits as on a cruise ship or passenger liner, and cannot be hidden behind doors for aesthetic purposes.
Some owners choose to meet the more stringent requirements anyways- the 2001 CMN/Oceanco launch BERMIE (can't remember what she's called now) met SOLAS regs even though she was a "smaller" yacht at 160' or so.
The 500gt limit is not really anything to do with the boat vs. ship nomenclature. it is the old cut-off point for MCA regs between a yacht and a cargo/passenger ship in their classifications.
If your yacht is flagged in a "Red Ensign" state, you need to meet MCA code to charter if it is under 500 gross tons. If you don't want to charter, you don't have to meet those requirements and you can choose what national classification society's rules to meet (ABS, Bureau veritas, RINA, Det Norke Veritas etc.)
Over 500gt, you have to meet ISM requirements, i.e. SOLAS regs for passenger ships, which are much stricter.
There are other trigger points besides gross tonnage- for a "Red Ensign" yacht, if you want to carry more than 12 passengers, you need to meet SOLAS Class III regs for passenger ships. That's why most large charter yachts can only carry 12 guests, even if there is room aboard for more. There are ways around this, LADY MOURA is Bahamas registered because Bahamian regs allow up to 36 passengers for a yacht instead of 12.
There's an upper tonnage limit for the MCA large yacht code as well, I think it is 3,000gt, above that and you have to comply with passenger ship codes. With so many large yachts being built these days, there really should be a change in the regs to accommodate the reality of today's market.
Technically, anything above the upper limit (which as I said, was only 500gt before the MCA revisions last year) is not a yacht, but a cargo ship unless it is certified as a passenger ship, since anything larger than the upper limit for a yacht that is not certified to carry more than 12 passengers only fits into the cargo ship category! So if you had a 200' yacht that displaced 1,000 tons, they'd have said: Not a "yacht." Not a "passenger ship." oops, only category left is "cargo ship." so that's what she must be. Shows you how silly the classifications can be.
OCTOPUS for example, is almost 10,000gt, so she has to meet SOLAS regs for passenger ships, including the carrying of proper lifeboats, not just life rafts. I believe the code says that the lifeboats must be ready to deploy, which is why they must be exposed on davits as on a cruise ship or passenger liner, and cannot be hidden behind doors for aesthetic purposes.
Some owners choose to meet the more stringent requirements anyways- the 2001 CMN/Oceanco launch BERMIE (can't remember what she's called now) met SOLAS regs even though she was a "smaller" yacht at 160' or so.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: yachts vs. ships etc.
Aswade, can you post some credentials as to your status
You post so seldomly, it's hard to get a grasp
Aswade, can you post some credentials as to your status
You post so seldomly, it's hard to get a grasp
JoeV
New member
Re: yachts vs. ships etc.
Excellent info. Thanks. VT kept calling M5 a ship ("we don't build boats") but we always struggled with that word, so we resisited it. I guess they were being kind by not telling us the truth....not only is it a ship, but it's a CARGO ship!
I guess we had a problem with the idea that we should come under some of the same rules as passnger ships which are designed and operated differently. For example, we had to endure 60 tonnes of additional fire insulation; hi-fog throughout; two staircases within 3 metres of each other; and show that we could get everyone out in less than 3 minutes (actuallly took less than 1 minute). Everyone has a job to do, and rules need to be followed, but sometimes a 245 foot vessel can be designed and operated like a boat, while a smaller (and lighter one) may still be a ship. Rules will eventually become more flexible, but it's too late for M5.
Excellent info. Thanks. VT kept calling M5 a ship ("we don't build boats") but we always struggled with that word, so we resisited it. I guess they were being kind by not telling us the truth....not only is it a ship, but it's a CARGO ship!
I guess we had a problem with the idea that we should come under some of the same rules as passnger ships which are designed and operated differently. For example, we had to endure 60 tonnes of additional fire insulation; hi-fog throughout; two staircases within 3 metres of each other; and show that we could get everyone out in less than 3 minutes (actuallly took less than 1 minute). Everyone has a job to do, and rules need to be followed, but sometimes a 245 foot vessel can be designed and operated like a boat, while a smaller (and lighter one) may still be a ship. Rules will eventually become more flexible, but it's too late for M5.
G
Guest
Guest
A 'ship' is a three master square rigged on all three
iangrant
New member
An old soak told me a boat is a submarine or a vessel propelled by oars. Everything else is a ship (or perhaps motor launch or yacht). That seems to work.
Ian
Ian
Wiggo
New member
I have a Palm Pilot, does that count?