When does a boat become a "classic boat"?

Capt. Clueless

Capt. Clueless

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Ok, I posted this here, as if I put it in the classic section, it may not get an opinion from those who do not visit that sector, but I am interested in what actually makes a boat "Classic"?
Down in the lounge, as soon as something about classic cars appears, it normally attracts plenty of posts from us who either own a classic car or admire them.
Back in the day, I worked building the "Leisure 17", which was enormously popular, and maybe equivelent to a MK1 Escort. A Mk1 escort currently attracts bids of £000's, but you will find leisure 17's of the same era languishing in yards at 500 or 600 quid, yet due to it's popularity, in my opinion would deem it to be "a classic".
I own what is very much believed to be a "Guy Thompson" one off, (besides our snapdragon) as there appears to be no other model like her, and certainly wasn't a production model. This to me makes her a rarity, but it's current value is probably 20 fags & a Bic biro, whereas, had it been a one off car from the same era, I would now be standing in Bonhams waiting to see how many £000's it makes.
So, unlike cars, age doesn't automatically class it as classic, so my question is.........In your opinion, what makes a boat "Classic" please?
 
I agree the Leisure 17 is indeed a classic design which will have a mark in sailing history; I also think the money they go for right now in no way reflects their worth.

However we're in a funny stage of boat ownership at the moment, with novices going for 35' +, treble aft cabins en suite, but not many real sailors buying good sailing boats !

Everything is cyclic, and everything changes.

As you say, early Ford Escorts are going for silly money now; I don't think 1970's boats will gain quite the same attraction, but they'll certainly do better than now in a short while, if ' sailing for normal people ' is to continue at all, bearing in mind everyone is paying proportionately more every month on mortgages.

It's the running costs and work involved which seems to put the modern average person or family off owning a boat; which is why I am a fan of boats which will dry out on half tide moorings - not only cheaper, but a helluva lot nicer to be on than deep water moorings, I've tried both.

My club is also very good value, my costs with a lovely mooring in Chichester Harbour, lift in and out by club travel hoist, locked tender pen within 5 minutes row, winter ashore, membership with a very nice clubhouse ( cheap beer and great views ! ) and two nice old pubs serving decent food, great shoreside walks, nature reserve etc is the same price as the local marina; but with a rather important zero missing off the end...
 
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Like beauty, "classic" is in the eye of the beholder.

At least with cars the VSCC produced a definition - totally ignored by most (especially "motoring" journalists) which does not include "classic".

http://www.vscc.co.uk/page/questions?groupID=2

The reference to "wings" immediately following aero-engines is apt to mislead, as they really mean "mudguards".
 
PeteCooper said:
Please can you give a few examples of these ... you keep quoting them but I can't think of anything that matches this description.
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They come from the same mythical world where you can find "real" sailors - in other words these things only exist in seajet's mind.
 
Well, with anchors, the change to "Classic" comes when a batch of "New Generation" ones come on the market. Anyone want a 20kg Danforth?
 
I skipped several decades of sailing in old tin baths, progressing to dinghys, before moving up to 20 footers on mud berths. I bought my first sailboat in my 50's, a 10 metre Westerly with two double cabins, as well as 3 berths in the saloon. So, i guess i'm not a "real" sailor. Could someone enlighten me as to what i am please ? Am i, perhaps, an ornamental sailor, or a plastic sailor or maybe a pretend sailor ?

She is a good sailboat though and doesn't have en suite, so maybe i might be nearly a real sailor ?
 
Having owned a L17 I'd definitely say they were a classic. Beautiful little ship that encouraged my love of sailing. I now have a Sadler 25 which is also like to think of as a classic unless anyone disagrees.
 
It looks as if there are two kinds of classic boat. There is the modest boat which, by virtue of originality or good design, proves to be practical and enduring. On the other hand, there are the generally larger vessels which show such grace when either sailing or at anchor that those of us who couldn't possibly afford such luxury can only gawp in admiration and envy.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I skipped several decades of sailing in old tin baths, progressing to dinghys, before moving up to 20 footers on mud berths. I bought my first sailboat in my 50's, a 10 metre Westerly with two double cabins, as well as 3 berths in the saloon. So, i guess i'm not a "real" sailor. Could someone enlighten me as to what i am please ? Am i, perhaps, an ornamental sailor, or a plastic sailor or maybe a pretend sailor ?

She is a good sailboat though and doesn't have en suite, so maybe i might be nearly a real sailor ?
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You're a Classic Sailor!
 
johnalison said:
It looks as if there are two kinds of classic boat. There is the modest boat which, by virtue of originality or good design, proves to be practical and enduring. On the other hand, there are the generally larger vessels which show such grace when either sailing or at anchor that those of us who couldn't possibly afford such luxury can only gawp in admiration and envy.
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Good point. So e.g. a Folkboat is the first kind of classic, a J Class the second.
I like to tell myself that my own boat can be called a classic, although I'm not sure which camp she falls in to.
 
My boat will be 44 next March.

Some people call her a "Classic", others prefer "Plastic Classic" while most others opt for "She's a pretty old boat". A few can only manage "Just an old tub".

Does it make a difference?

For me, regardless of what people choose to call her, she is MY boat and that is all that matters.

p.s. For those who don't know she is a Centurion 32 built by Wauquiez in 1973.
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
p.s. For those who don't know she is a Centurion 32 built by Wauquiez in 1973.
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I think virtually all the H&P designs of that era are potential classics, with the odd exception such as the Oyster 26 which is too dumpy. I always fancied the Centurion, but leap-frogged it by going from 29 to 34ft. If you take another designer, such as Alan Hill, their boats may have good qualities but lack style. Maybe Van de Stadt evades my criticism because although some of his boats are a bit quirky, they show a certain pedigree, such as the Pioneers.
 
The term 'Classic' is completely meaningless and subjective. In a world where Triumph Bathtubs and Vauxhall Vivas are being called classics, it can be applied to anything past its first flush.
Agree though that Leisure 17 is a mini beaut though.
 
Certain boats stand out;

Leisure 17 ( twin keel )

Manta 19 ( lift keel )

Hunter Europa ( fin or triple keel )

Anderson 22 ( lift keel )

Splinter 21 ( long fin keel )

Achilles 24 ( fin or triple keel )

Trident 24 ( triple keel )

Sadler 25 ( fin keel )

Wing 25 ( long keel )

IF Marieholm Folkboat ( long keel )

Sadler 29 ( twin keel )

etc.

But the boat which stands head and shoulders above the others - for versatility and practicality - is the

Westerly Centaur.

For a long time people derided them as poor sailing boats, because they had a big engine for their time - in fact it was because Westerly's had been offered a special deal by Volvo - and a lot of novices bought them.

A Centaur in the right hands goes rather well.

There are the classic designs I mentioned above, and others I forgot; but for a true classic of our age it has to be the Centaur.
 
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When I want to spend some money on my 51 year old Westerly 22, I justify it by saying, 'well, she's a sort of classic so it's worth it.'

When I want to do something cheap or bodge a repair, I say, 'she's just an old tub really, I'm patching her up to go sailing'.

Vindicates either route!
 
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Seajet said:
Certain boats stand out;

Leisure 17 ( twin keel )

Manta 19 ( lift keel )

Hunter Europa ( fin or triple keel )

Anderson 22 ( lift keel )

Splinter 21 ( long fin keel )

Achilles 24 ( fin or triple keel )

Trident 24 ( triple keel )

Sadler 25 ( fin keel )

Wing 25 ( long keel )

IF Marieholm Folkboat ( long keel )

Sadler 29 ( twin keel )

etc.

But the boat which stands head and shoulders above the others - for versatility and practicality - is the

Westerly Centaur.

For a long time people derided them as poor sailing boats, because they had a big engine for their time - in fact it was because Westerly's had been offered a special deal by Volvo - and a lot of novices bought them.

A Centaur in the right hands goes rather well.

There are the classic designs I mentioned above, and others I forgot; but for a true classic of our age it has to be the Centaur.
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Although I once owned a Sadler 29, I don't think I would nominate it as a classic in the way that the 25 is, because the 25 represented a new way of using space, combined with superior performance for its time. If I wanted to include the 29 it would have to be the fin because of the much better sailing qualities. Although we loved our 29, I never went "aaah" when I looked at it.
 
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