When do you put a reef in?

BelleSerene said:
How do you get it to do that?! I just reduced a lot of friction in mine with a PTFE spray lube on lugs that haul up the mast track - but it'll still only fall all the way down when head to wind, and way off the wind I wouldn't have a hope! What's your secret?!
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It helps to work out where the friction is coming from.
Basically something is loading up those slides.
Some boats, the main is cut for significant mast curve. I have a dinghy where the main really does not want to go up the track unless the mast bend is in the right ballpark.
On yachts, things to look at include:
topping lift- is the weight of the boom off the sail or is it hanging on the slides a few feet up?
Outhaul - is it cranked on? that force goes somewhere, and that ends up at the luff.
Headboard - try shackling the hallaird to the other hole if there is one!

I don't think zero friction is a worthy aim, but if it's a fight on a nice day it's only going to be worse when it matters.
 
bitbaltic said:
Previous threads on this topic have featured several people starting the engine to do it.

....
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I wouldn't knock anyone for starting the engine, particularly on a boat where they were at uncertain of the gear, or if shorthanded.
Particularly in a messy sea state.
If something goes off-message, a squirt or two of motor to keep the boat where you want it is nice to have.
If it stays in neutral, fine, you've wasted a shilling's worth of diesel.

Obviously when it's our own boat, we aspire to sorting things out so such moves are not needed.
 
BelleSerene said:
How do you get it to do that?! I just reduced a lot of friction in mine with a PTFE spray lube on lugs that haul up the mast track - but it'll still only fall all the way down when head to wind, and way off the wind I wouldn't have a hope! What's your secret?!
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It's a fully battened laminate main so it's heavy, but the real secret is a tidesmarine teflon mast track. Also the halyard is undersized because it is dyneema. All of that let's the weight of the main (wanting to drop) overcome resistance from friction or the power of the main pulling on the mast slot. The lazyjacks also encourage the main to drop vertically rather than blow off sideways once the halyard is off.
 
lw395 said:
It helps to work out where the friction is coming from.
Basically something is loading up those slides.
Some boats, the main is cut for significant mast curve. I have a dinghy where the main really does not want to go up the track unless the mast bend is in the right ballpark.
On yachts, things to look at include:
topping lift- is the weight of the boom off the sail or is it hanging on the slides a few feet up?
Outhaul - is it cranked on? that force goes somewhere, and that ends up at the luff.
Headboard - try shackling the hallaird to the other hole if there is one!

I don't think zero friction is a worthy aim, but if it's a fight on a nice day it's only going to be worse when it matters.
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That's excellent advice; thank you.
 
Out on the catamaran today, I called for three reefs in a beamy 25 knots, put the guests kids in life jackets and had a blast. On the mooring with twenty knots we had both kayaks out and one paddle board. Sea blue.

As you do.
 
Tranona said:
Of course it is not from experience. Always easier to criticise when you have no experience
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"You don't have to fall off a mountain to know it hurts" - Anthony St John Aloysius Hancock

My last boat had a roller reefing main. My current boat has a roller reefing jib. Both are convenient. Neither set(s) at all well with more than a roll or two in.

I have just put a nice new mainsail on my boat. It has been designed and aconstructed by experts to have a carefully calculated shape. Rolling a significant amount of it round anything - vertical or horizontal - will no nothing good for that shape.

Don't tell me. Let me guess. Your new boat has a roller reefing mainsail, right?

Anybody would think that people who advocate in mast don't know about the potential drawbacks, when in most cases they are experienced and have worked out that the compromises are worth having
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I am glad to see that you (now) admit that there are drawbacks and compromises.
 
jimi said:
When I replaced my genoa I got it made a bit smaller with effectively one reef in it. The logic was that in light conditions I'd probably use the cruising chute and the genoa would set perfectly in the F4/5 range as well as having a better shape in heavier winds. I have'nt regretted that decision.
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I'm planning a new jib next year and will probably get it smaller for similar reasons. Also it needs two rolls in to balance the helm for the windvane. I think it's bigger than standard, as a result of some over-optimism by the last owner but one.
 
NormanS said:
I didn't take you for a racer. :rolleyes:
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Only if I'm going faster then them anyway.

However, even cruising it's nice to have sails which perform well, and roller reefing ones just don't, much, when reefed. There are other compensations, of course, but a lousy shape goes with the territory.
 
capnsensible said:
Out on the catamaran today, I called for three reefs in a beamy 25 knots, put the guests kids in life jackets and had a blast. On the mooring with twenty knots we had both kayaks out and one paddle board. Sea blue.

As you do.
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Off topic but as you are in a cat ......

I thought thy didn't point well but the other day I was close hauled on port tack, not the best for me, and a cat passeef me on a higher point of sail and doing at least 2kts SOG than me. Admittedly he had carbon fibre sails against my ropey old rags, but I was impressed, unless, he had a bit of engine support.
 
Major_Clanger said:
'Stokey' Woodhall, an RYA instructor in the 1980s had some sage words, "The time to reef is when you first think of it, and the time to shake it out is after your first cup of tea!"
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My dear old Dad (who was not an RYA instructor and learned to sail in a Polish square-rigger) used to say "Never be the first or the last to reef".
 
SimonFa said:
Off topic but as you are in a cat ......

I thought thy didn't point well but the other day I was close hauled on port tack, not the best for me, and a cat passeef me on a higher point of sail and doing at least 2kts SOG than me. Admittedly he had carbon fibre sails against my ropey old rags, but I was impressed, unless, he had a bit of engine support.
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Just threw that in. I drive a Fontaine Pajot Athena a couple of times a week , odd weeks and it's a fun chatter job. Reaching up and down with customers in wind, no sea then mooring for lunch. It's great watching monos arriving round the point, dressed liked Nanuk of the north.

Have also delivered one of her sisters, Lavezzi, from St. Lucia to Croatia. I'm very familiar with the art of reefing on all sorts of wind propelled bits of plastic. It's lovely to read about people's favourite ways, there is no wrong way, just do it! And practice, practice, practice. In my opinion.

Got two four hour charters on Friday. Will never have less than two reefs, customers first.

:cool:
 
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