Wheelyboat accident 6/22 any info please ?

[Capt Popeye]

Hi I am investigating the suitabity of a Wheelyboat for a project that I am working on ; Wheelyboats are especially designed to enable Disabled and Wheechair users to use them , these Boats have a Drop Front , like a Landing Craft , to enable those with Mobility probs easy access onto the Boat ; Apparently I came accross a Accident report , dated 6 /22 in Radford Lake , resulting in the tragic loss of two persons ; The report appears to state that these 2 persons were strapped into their Wheelchairs during a ride afloat on the Lake , so when the Boat met with an accident it resulted in 2 drownings .

I obviously would like to read any accident investigation report to include it in my research as to suitabilty of the Boat , a Wheelyboat , for my /our intended purpose

All my research so far just states that an investigation is in progress ,dated 6/7 22

Thank you CP

 

[FWB]

It seems that the accident is under investigation and awaiting the report.
Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations

 

[Capt Popeye]

It seems that the accident is under investigation and awaiting the report.
Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations

Hi thank you Mr FWB , thats what my searching came up with ;

I am particulary interested in the following , as would like to know what (if any) bearing they had , in the investigators view ?<

THe speed of the boat at the time of the accident (stability issues etc )

The wearing of Life Jackets

The practice of belting Diabled in wheel chairs , into their chair , having suitable knives /saw etc to cut free from the belt

Quick release buckles on wheel chairs

Flotation devices to mark where the boat is after an accident , so aid quicker recovery

The design of this particular boat , is it inherantly untable ? poss flater underwater hull design ? the lift from headwinds ?

I do recall an accident where I understand that a disabled person crew in a dinghy drowned whisl belted into a Dinghy (I will research it again , so be interesting if the investigation commened in this occurance

 

[oldharry]

Interesting. I have a lot of experience of wheelchair transport on land, but not afloat. But the issues are the same. There is (was) no quick release system to enable rapid evac of wheelchair bound people in an accident or fire.

'Was' because I retired some while ago and things may have improved. But somehow I think not?

 

[Slowboat35]

Strapping people into wheelchairs in a boat? Seriously? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[crewman]

I drive a wheelyboat at times. We insist that where possible people are not strapped into their chairs - people float, wheelchairs do not. Unfortunately with some disabilities this is not possible, under these circumstances we do not do any high speed runs, keeping the boat at displacement speeds. This is on an inland lake, not on open sea. We too are waiting for the report into this incident.

 

[LittleSister]

Interesting. I have a lot of experience of wheelchair transport on land, but not afloat. But the issues are the same. There is (was) no quick release system to enable rapid evac of wheelchair bound people in an accident or fire.

'Was' because I retired some while ago and things may have improved. But somehow I think not?

A disabled friend used to strap himself into his kayak. The strap was fitted with a simple quick release buckle from an old (1960s/70s style) car seatbelt (bought from breakers) - the type that has a large squarish plastic handle, the 'hinge' end of which has cam that sits in the curved 'hooked over' end of a metal plate. Pulling the lever up/outward the cam trips the 'hinge' out of its seat in the plate. (Modern car seatbelts are less appropriate - the lock-like internal mechanism would be too vulnerable to rust, salt and grit, and the release button less accessible and requiring greater dexterity to operate. The older type were probably more vulnerable to accidental release. Feels slightly strange that I can't find an image of this older type - they were once so ubiquitous!)

Would probably be difficult to find such car seat belt buckles today, but there surely must be something similar available for some purpose. At least they would be relatively simple to manufacture, even in small batches.

 

[Alan S]

A disabled friend used to strap himself into his kayak. The strap was fitted with a simple quick release buckle from an old (1960s/70s style) car seatbelt (bought from breakers) - the type that has a large squarish plastic handle, the 'hinge' end of which has cam that sits in the curved 'hooked over' end of a metal plate. Pulling the lever up/outward the cam trips the 'hinge' out of its seat in the plate. (Modern car seatbelts are less appropriate - the lock-like internal mechanism would be too vulnerable to rust, salt and grit, and the release button less accessible and requiring greater dexterity to operate. The older type were probably more vulnerable to accidental release. Feels slightly strange that I can't find an image of this older type - they were once so ubiquitous!)

Would probably be difficult to find such car seat belt buckles today, but there surely must be something similar available for some purpose. At least they would be relatively simple to manufacture, even in small batches.

That sounds like the type of quick release on aircraft seatbelts.

 

[LittleSister]

That sounds like the type of quick release on aircraft seatbelts.

Yes!

p.s. Having looked at a few images they operate slightly differently to what I described above, instead latching into an opening in a flat plate (probably stronger and less liable to accidental release than the old car ones), but would appear suitable for the purpose, and available from a wide range of outlets at a modest price.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I do recall an accident where I understand that a disabled person crew in a dinghy drowned whisl belted into a Dinghy (I will research it again , so be interesting if the investigation commened in this occurance

Capsize and full inversion of self-righting keelboat RS Venture Connect sail number 307 with loss of 1 life

 

[oldharry]

Strapping people into wheelchairs in a boat? Seriously? What could possibly go wrong?

As crewman says, for some people who are less able to control their movements, strapping in is the only s way they can remain safe in a moving vehicle ashore or afloat. Lacking coordination to prevent themselves from falling out of their chair, strapping in is the only solution. The the chair itself must be secured so that it will not move. So either the occupant or the chair needs some sort of quick release system.

It will be interesting to see the report, not only how it happened, but to see their recommendations. However the incidence of fatalities from Wheely boat must be very very low.

 

[lustyd]

Strapping people into wheelchairs in a boat? Seriously? What could possibly go wrong?

The same things as usual, but with wheelchairs

 

[northwind]

Capsize and full inversion of self-righting keelboat RS Venture Connect sail number 307 with loss of 1 life

The issue with the keelboat was that the keel was not locked in position.

 

[PhillM]

Would the same sort of thing that automatically releases a life raft not work?

 

[Capt Popeye]

The issue with the keelboat was that the keel was not locked in position.

If this is the Fatality case afloat that I am thinking of , I was told that the Boat was running down wind with the Keel raised fully up , and the Boat broached ; so maybe lessons to be learned there ?

I am horrified that anyone should be strapped into or on to any boat , its like a certain death sentence should the boat go over or capsize

Fred Drit Ere I recall that a few years ago someone in a Mobility chair went over the side of the harbour wall and was not recovered in time , so drowned ; recall that the person was in a self drive mobility chair ; perhaps these harbour walls should have railings around them to prevent (hopefully) such awfull happenings ?

 

[Juan Twothree]

If this is the Fatality case afloat that I am thinking of , I was told that the Boat was running down wind with the Keel raised fully up , and the Boat broached ; so maybe lessons to be learned there ?

You're thinking of a different incident. The details of this one are in the link I posted to the MAIB report.

It was on a beam reach, and got knocked down in a gust.

 

[Clunk]

Interesting thread to follow. As a care coordinator so much red tape with even getting someone from there premises to the local shops. Amount of carer's needed, equipment involved, steps, ramps, service users disabilities, weather etc. Not straight forward. Family or friends taking said person out, just use common sense and adapt as necessary. I've been trying to get people out fishing for years, absolute nightmare with so many obstacles put in the way. We have a landing craft where I'm moored that is used for outings for able bodied people, I thought that would be an option for getting wheelchair reliant people on the river but again still struggling.

 

[mm42]

Would the same sort of thing that automatically releases a life raft not work?

Hydrostatic release units operate at quite a depth, in the main between 1.5m and 4m, so the wheelchair would have to submerge fairly deep before it operated, which could mean a fatal submersion for the occupant before it even released. Then you've got the issue that a wheelchair isn't buoyant, so whilst it isn't tethered to the boat any more, nor is it returning to the surface. Alternatively you could use the HRU on the subject's connection to the wheelchair, but if they're sufficiently disabled enough to need a wheelchair they're unlikely to be strong enough to be able to swim back to the surface from 4 metres down.

 

[lustyd]

unlikely to be strong enough to be able to swim back to the surface from 4 metres down.

Let’s not drift into needless discrimination here. There are plenty of reasons people use wheelchairs, and plenty of quite strong swimmers among them. Not to mention, life jackets are a thing and can be worn by most people.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Interesting thread to follow. As a care coordinator so much red tape with even getting someone from there premises to the local shops. Amount of carer's needed, equipment involved, steps, ramps, service users disabilities, weather etc. Not straight forward. Family or friends taking said person out, just use common sense and adapt as necessary. I've been trying to get people out fishing for years, absolute nightmare with so many obstacles put in the way. We have a landing craft where I'm moored that is used for outings for able bodied people, I thought that would be an option for getting wheelchair reliant people on the river but again still struggling.

Well Mr Clunk that all sounds like very good work that you do , but might suggest , as someone who requires certain simple hand rails hand holds etc , etc , these 'obstacles' as you put it are actually 'enablers' so that us that needs them can do things and go where we are not able to do without them ; often quite simple things like providing Hand Holds attatched so that we can do /access things /places that otherwise will become difficult , or impossible for us to safely do

We with mobility issues really appreciate these fittings that enable us to access cars ,buses , boats , buildings offices , shops etc etc without to much assistance from others , as we still do appreciate our freedoms , even as restricted /limited as we are

Thank you for your activities in this area of responsibility , its all much appreciated , for shure