What's your initial MOB procedure?

[srm]

Our topping lift would work as it leads to a coachroof winch and is long enough - or two big strong blokes ( not that i sail with them often). Otherwise it's spinnaker halyard and recover midships.

Have you tried this?
I tried a spi halyard lift with victim (around 70Kg) lying in dinghy alongside with harness. Lighter weight, fit, crew was unable to get victim to sitting position using mast mounted geared winch so only friction was at masthead block.

 

[jlavery]

Have you tried this?
I tried a spi halyard lift with victim (around 70Kg) lying in dinghy alongside with harness. Lighter weight, fit, crew was unable to get victim to sitting position using mast mounted geared winch so only friction was at masthead block.

That's interesting. My experience from practicing/teaching/demonstrating is that a recovery tackle is much better than halyards. As you say, the friction in the halyard system can be significant.

 

[Adios]

Have you tried this?
I tried a spi halyard lift with victim (around 70Kg) lying in dinghy alongside with harness. Lighter weight, fit, crew was unable to get victim to sitting position using mast mounted geared winch so only friction was at masthead block.

What kind of forces are on a sheet winch with a big genoa up in a bit of wind? Must be way more than lifting 70kg. Halyard winch on a mast not designed for as big a load I guess but still if its geared that seems surprising to not be able to cope.

What did you end up doing with the victim? Tow him back to port?

 

[jlavery]

Yes, primary winches are more suited - but how do you get the halyard to the primary winch? You need a pre-organised way of doing it. One other advantage of recovery tackle (hope I'm not banging on about it...) is that the person hauling is right next to the victim as they are recovered, rather than back in the cockpit.

 

[Adios]

That's interesting. My experience from practicing/teaching/demonstrating is that a recovery tackle is much better than halyards. As you say, the friction in the halyard system can be significant.

How about topping lift to raise the boom, rope preventer to keep the boom outboard, main sheet with pulleys taken from normal attachment to attach to casualty, end of mainsheet taken to the foresheet winch? Seems like getting advantage from pulleys in main sheet and foresheet winch should do it

 

[Adios]

Yes, primary winches are more suited - but how do you get the halyard to the primary winch? You need a pre-organised way of doing it. One other advantage of recovery tackle (hope I'm not banging on about it...) is that the person hauling is right next to the victim as they are recovered, rather than back in the cockpit.

How is this £526 system better than the mainsheet tackle system? MOB Tackle & Sling Retrieval Kit | Suffolk Marine Safety

 

[Adios]

Yes, primary winches are more suited - but how do you get the halyard to the primary winch? You need a pre-organised way of doing it.

Someone up thread a bit said they keep their spinnaker halyard long enough to reach the winch, simple solution for just a bit of extra rope to deal with at other times.

 

[jlavery]

How about topping lift to raise the boom, rope preventer to keep the boom outboard, main sheet with pulleys taken from normal attachment to attach to casualty, end of mainsheet taken to the foresheet winch? Seems like getting advantage from pulleys in main sheet and foresheet winch should do it

The problem with using the mainsheet is:

1. You need to have dropped the main.
2. You need to have the boom located so it doesn't swing around.
3. The boom needs to be at an angle that the mainsheet is not too far from the hull
4. The mainsheet jammer will be at the bottom, not the top
5. It's doubtful you can get the casualty high enough to get over the lifelines.

Believe me, I'd like to be able to use the mainsheet too, but I think it just doesn't work.

 

[jlavery]

Someone up thread a bit said they keep their spinnaker halyard long enough to reach the winch, simple solution for just a bit of extra rope to deal with at other times.

Yup, as long as the lead to the winch is clean and doesn't add friction. Can work with the right boat layout.

 

[capnsensible]

Cutting the lifelines makes a big difference in the height required to lift the casualty.

My school yacht guardwires were tightened and secured by thin line that could be cut with a knife. On others, bolt croppers or hacksaw.

 

[capnsensible]

I like that people are thinking wide on this problem and offering suggestions. Practice alongside is a good first step. Mrs S and I did that on our liveaboard boat before our first long trip and refined it over the years.

 

[jlavery]

I like that people are thinking wide on this problem and offering suggestions. Practice alongside is a good first step. Mrs S and I did that on our liveaboard boat before our first long trip and refined it over the years.

Indeed. I'm convinced that on my boat, the recovery system with tackle etc. is the best solution.

However, on other boats, other arrangements could well work better. The important thing is, as @capnsensible says, that we as sailors are thinking about it so that we've got a solution. And learning from others' experience/suggestions (which I've already done on this thread ).

And practice, change, practice!

 

[jac]

Have you tried this?
I tried a spi halyard lift with victim (around 70Kg) lying in dinghy alongside with harness. Lighter weight, fit, crew was unable to get victim to sitting position using mast mounted geared winch so only friction was at masthead block.

That’s a good point and answer is no but…

that’s the halyard I use to take people up the mast so the basics are there. What I’m not sure about is the additional weight caused by soaking wet weather gear and the change in angle from winching from the foredeck to winching from alongside.

Might have to try a “winch from the pontoon” and see how doable it is. Then add some additional weight and try again.

Failing that I’m thinking a handy billy suspended from the spinnaker halyard and then lead back through a block mounted on the mid ships cleat to the primary. Even with just a 2-1 advantage from the blocks, lifting the equivalent of 10 stone with a primary should be straightforward

 

[RunAgroundHard]

How is this £526 system better than the mainsheet tackle system? MOB Tackle & Sling Retrieval Kit | Suffolk Marine Safety

That is the system I have. How is it different. It is 8:1, it is portable, it can be set up exactly for your boat, it is one handed operation, you can manoeuvre the casualty around the boat once aboard.

Mine is set up at a length to be used from the spinnikar halyard. Open box, clip first hook to guard rail, second hook to spinikar halyard. Hoist halyard until tackle is straight and cleat off. Connect lower hook to casualty, pull on fall of block to raise MOB. Ratchet block and 8:1 allows easy control of tail while hosting with one hand, while other manoeuvres casualty over side. The method we have developed, is pull down tail to hoist, knee on tail, slide hand up tail to pull down again, other hand is is stabilising casualty. With spinnaker halyard at mast height, easy to manoeuvre casualty down fore hatch or companionway hatch, whatever you have set it up for.

I also have the horizontal bit which allows casualty to be lifted horizontally. My misses is slightly built and can manoeuvre me, out the water, over the side and into the cockpit. Tried and tested.

Sure, make your own, use the mainsheet, just have something that works and know how its limitations. The Duncan Wells kit works easily, the Harken blocks are very low friction, the ratchet block and 8:1 is key for easy lifting.

 

[jlavery]

It's just occurred to me that a handy billy off a halyard reduces the need to think about which halyard. If we're using a halyard, then we are thinking about which one is going to lead best to the side of the boat, and which side of the halyard leads with respect to the side the casualty is - all to reduce friction while hoisting.

With a handy billy, we can grab almost any halyard (even the pole uphill on my boat, it's big enough), get it to the right length for the handy billy, all under low load, and then lock it off. Now the billy tackle block is the only friction involved.

 

[capnsensible]

The added challenge that I like is sailing....and motoring.....on lots of different boats. Figuring out how best to go about recovery is an important part of crew awareness, for example, prior to departing on a delivery trip. Including spending a bit of time when first setting off doing some practice. No matter how much the crew grumbles....

 

[Adios]

The problem with using the mainsheet is:

1. You need to have dropped the main.
2. You need to have the boom located so it doesn't swing around.
3. The boom needs to be at an angle that the mainsheet is not too far from the hull
4. The mainsheet jammer will be at the bottom, not the top
5. It's doubtful you can get the casualty high enough to get over the lifelines.

Believe me, I'd like to be able to use the mainsheet too, but I think it just doesn't work.

1. By the time its realised the casualty can't get up quickly, bringing all the sails in is bound to be done whichever method is used.
2. easily controlled with some preventers/guys
3. as above
4. can undo one more shackle at the boom and turn it all upside down to have the jammer (more importantly the pulling end) at the top. When tension is on the sheet it won't be possible to lower the casualty if the rope has gone through the jammer but can take that out of the equation by rethreading the sheet the other way on the last pulley or maybe tying a cut off piece of rope through the jammer so its already occupied.
5. toping lift adjusted to lift the boom high enough before weight applied. Remove guard wires as mentioned.

Can't see why it won't work but it needs a try

 

[jlavery]

1. By the time its realised the casualty can't get up quickly, bringing all the sails in is bound to be done whichever method is used.
2. easily controlled with some preventers/guys
3. as above
4. can undo one more shackle at the boom and turn it all upside down to have the jammer (more importantly the pulling end) at the top. When tension is on the sheet it won't be possible to lower the casualty if the rope has gone through the jammer but can take that out of the equation by rethreading the sheet the other way on the last pulley or maybe tying a cut off piece of rope through the jammer so its already occupied.
5. toping lift adjusted to lift the boom high enough before weight applied. Remove guard wires as mentioned.

Can't see why it won't work but it needs a try

Yup, give it a try and let us know the results. I mean that genuinely, not critically.

 

[Adios]

With spinnaker halyard at mast height, easy to manoeuvre casualty down fore hatch or companionway hatch,

nice! That's a conceivably life saving benefit over using the boom

 

[Adios]

Yup, give it a try and let us know the results. I mean that genuinely, not critically.

I will. If I was youtube inclined I'd do a series of videos trying out all the methods available. Seems a gap in the market there, maybe needs suggesting to one of the channels for a bit of new content.