Whats the problem with Ex Charter?

[ian38_39]

Looking around the Med brokers seems to throw up a few well priced examples in the just under 40' category. I have asked around a bit to find out why the sudden apparent bargain and the stock answer seems to be Ex Charter.

Genuine question, Is this a problem? if a boat is properly mechanically maintained can the fact that it has been chartered really do that much damage? I know it will probably be due a refit but other than that is there any reason why an ex charter boat should be worse than a privately owned one?

I am looking at boats around 15 years old so even in the private market there will have been plenty of opportunity for abuse, would a charter boat not be better maintained?

 

[Tranona]

There is market resistance to ex charter boats, particularly relatively new ones, firstly because they are often different spec or layout from private boats, second they can accumulate far more hours and particularly usage on other equipment. You are right that good maintenance should reduce the impact of these factors but the reality is that in season maintenance is often not done properly because of demands on the boat from charters. so you need to see records of usage and work as part of assessing the boat's condition.

This of course becomes less important over time and once a boat gets older or longer out of charter its early history becomes less important.

There may also be additional factors to consider about the ownership and tax situation. Charter boats are often owned by companies and maybe not even the one operating it, or by private individuals as investments. Most countries have favourable tax treatments for commercially operated boats so are often sold not VAT paid, for example. You just need to be extra cautious that you get clear title and tax is paid.

 

[Firefly625]

the usage is far heavier. Just think about your own boating, average season of 7 month, use your boat every other weekend means 14 visits, plus perhaps a couple of weeks in the middle somewhere so say 45 days use a year. Charter companies will do there very best to get occupancy up, not sure what that may be, but lets say probably 50% pa... that is circa 182 days a year, so wear and tear must be quadruple what you expect to get on a privately owned boat... plus the fact its not your own equipment will lead to some heavy handed use. Ex charter wouldn't be my choice...

 

[AIDY]

wont be my choice... know some people that have, boasted at the price they bought it for. but ended up spending thousands putting it right to be left with a boat that had seen better days.....

the interior will take a lot of wear..... which is the hardest thing to put right

 

[SEARANGER ANCASTER]

Looking around the Med brokers seems to throw up a few well priced examples in the just under 40' category. I have asked around a bit to find out why the sudden apparent bargain and the stock answer seems to be Ex Charter.

Genuine question, Is this a problem? if a boat is properly mechanically maintained can the fact that it has been chartered really do that much damage? I know it will probably be due a refit but other than that is there any reason why an ex charter boat should be worse than a privately owned one?

I am looking at boats around 15 years old so even in the private market there will have been plenty of opportunity for abuse, would a charter boat not be better maintained?

Many boats are coded for charter but are rarely chartered out for various reasons ( mainly tax reasons). Our Searanger was coded for charter but doubt it was ever chartered much as all the extra equipment needed for coding is still in its packed ie 12 x brand new life jackets never been opened. I know this doesnt necessarily mean the boat wasnt chartered but what I am saying is that some boats are lightly chartered and some out every week so its just like buying any boat really and a good inspection and survey should help.

 

[jfm]

I think the answers above apply to buying a boat that has had a full on charter life, like a boat from Sunsail or Moorings or suchlike. Many of these have had a tough life, as stated above

In the Med many boats are chartered only occasionally and are still used plenty by the their owners and cherished. If it is one of those (and I have no idea whether it is) then it could be in perfectly good condition. A starting point would be to see what the engine hours are - this might help you conclude whether it has had full-on or just occasional charter use

EDIT: I see my post crossed with SA's above; we were typing the same thing at the same time!

 

[ian38_39]

happy to refit interior, have just done ours and while time consuming it was not particularly expensive, that was with all the upholstery being professionally done, just me taking it out and putting it back.

Seems that people are always saying that diesels are better if they are used rather than left standing, would have thought charter would have seen to this. Can see the toilet, cooker etc getting more use and wearing out and the engines will probably have done a bit more work flat out than if it is privately owned but does this create and issue?

The one thing that really concerns me is how do I really know what the engine hours are?, guessing it is cheaper to change clocks than to sell a boat with 5000 hours on.

Good point about the amount of Charter use, I knew to a lovely UK ex charter F37 that hung around forever despite being by far the cheapest advertised and only being used for skippered charter. Shame I couldn't afford that one

 

[crazy4557]

I took in an ex hire boat last year in part ex for my boat I was selling. A Crownline 275 that was an import and had been used on the Thames for 5 years clocking up almost 1000 hours and limited to 5 knots so never thrashed, raced or rallied. No idea how many different drivers in total but a lot!
The condition inside and in the cockpit was excellent and you would never know it had done the hours or been ex hire. I think modern materials are much better wearing and can cope with much more abuse. Few bumps and scrapes on the hull but a fibreglass expert made it look new again.

So even though it may be ex charter don't discount it as the condition both mechanically and cosmetically is the most important point and the fact that it's ex charter means it will be priced accordingly.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

happy to refit interior, have just done ours and while time consuming it was not particularly expensive, that was with all the upholstery being professionally done, just me taking it out and putting it back.

Seems that people are always saying that diesels are better if they are used rather than left standing, would have thought charter would have seen to this. Can see the toilet, cooker etc getting more use and wearing out and the engines will probably have done a bit more work flat out than if it is privately owned but does this create and issue?

The one thing that really concerns me is how do I really know what the engine hours are?, guessing it is cheaper to change clocks than to sell a boat with 5000 hours on.

Good point about the amount of Charter use, I knew to a lovely UK ex charter F37 that hung around forever despite being by far the cheapest advertised and only being used for skippered charter. Shame I couldn't afford that one

The interior is probably the area that will show most evidence of heavy charter use. I have looked at boats in Mallorca in the past which have been heavily chartered and the interiors were well shagged. Worse than that some owners try to hide this with cheap looking upgrades. Yes that also means that all of the domestic equipment has been used heavily too and that may mean that expensive items such as the generator and aircon unit are nearing the end of their useful lives as well as less expensive items such as water pumps and fridges. Having said that, there are plenty of boats in the Med which have had light charter use, maybe only a few days a year and I view that as a positive thing in that too often, Med boats are left unused for months so some light charter use keeps them ticking over. In fact, if you can find a boat that has had light charter use and has been properly MCA coded, that's a plus because coding is expensive and a future buyer of your boat might be looking for a coded boat
As for the engine hours, ask to see copies of previous service invoices which should show working hours, ask to see the logbooks and if the engines are electronically controlled, a technician may be able to download engine hours via the diagnostic system.

 

[maxy]

Are charter yachts really used for 6 months a year?

What a shame some charter companies don't adequately maintain or love the yachts in their fleets. As I have access to booking information for most med charter companies, I can tell you only the largest companies produce the the highest sold weeks. For 2013 the average charter weeks across 5 countries was just over 17 weeks. this means that there is adequate time for on pontoon maintenance during the season. You should be cautious of the bigger organisations that ferry their yachts from med. to caribbean each season, leaving little time for maintenance plus the stress of atlantic crossings.

Our owners (and charter clients) would be far from happy if their pride and joy wasn't in perfect shape when they arrive. Sadly many foreign run charter companies haven't had the benefit of understanding consumer behaviour, and naively think that they can rip off the customer with poorly managed yachts and service, and that there will always be another customer next year. I suppose we should be grateful as it gives us a huge advantage, but its also disappointing as it reflects poorly on the industry as a whole, and those dedicated companies who really try and care about their yachts, and the quality of their product.

I have seen many privately owned yachts (which we have worked on after over the years) which are in awful condition compared with a well maintained charter yacht, we even have buyers queuing up for a couple of our yachts when the owners decide its time to change.

In summary, check out carefully what you are buying, if it doesn't look right it, or the vendors don't give you a comfortable feeling, move on.