What's the point of an out of date light list?

[prv]

Over on the for-sale forum, someone has just found a willing "buyer" (well, payer of postage costs) for a 2004 Admiralty light list. Now while I wish the buyer every happiness with their new purchase, I'm somewhat curious as to the possible use of it.

As a fairly short-range navigator I've never used such a thing, but my understanding of their purpose was to help keep up-to-date information on light characteristics if your chart-updating isn't as thorough as it might be (old or second-hand charts, just can't be bothered with corrections, or your potential voyaging area is very large and it's not feasible to keep a vast set of corrected charts at all times). So a light list that was itself out of date by 7 years or so wouldn't be much good.

Have I missed the point of a light list?

Pete

 

[onesea]

Over on the for-sale forum, someone has just found a willing "buyer" (well, payer of postage costs) for a 2004 Admiralty light list. Now while I wish the buyer every happiness with their new purchase, I'm somewhat curious as to the possible use of it.

As a fairly short-range navigator I've never used such a thing, but my understanding of their purpose was to help keep up-to-date information on light characteristics if your chart-updating isn't as thorough as it might be (old or second-hand charts, just can't be bothered with corrections, or your potential voyaging area is very large and it's not feasible to keep a vast set of corrected charts at all times). So a light list that was itself out of date by 7 years or so wouldn't be much good.

Have I missed the point of a light list?

Pete

I do not think you have & many a second mate will watch this "sale" with interest.

The challenge is to find a short or long range navigator who really knows how to use one or has used them in anger

This being the forums we are now due 20 responses telling me other wise...

 

[electrosys]

The List of Lights gives info on lighthouses, lightships, and lit floating marks which are over 8m in height, (as well as fog signals etc).
There won't have been that many changes during the last 7 years, and those that have will be in NtM's.

... and the time spent correcting the book will be time he hasn't then got to spend talking with 'swmbo'. Sounds like a bl##dy sensible purchase to me.

 

[MARGETTS]

Just suppose that you were teaching a theory class, or even a practical class. Very very few of us actualy need a light list. We use the almanac or " up to date charts ". But if a student asked to actually see one to fulfill his learning experieance, how cool would you be to show him this one. I have never seen one, but the price of postage would definitly make it interesting to some people. We all own books etc which we would not actually use for navigation. Fair play for offerering it instead of just binning it.

 

[ffiill]

Now out of date nautical almanacs and tide tables!-you will see plenty of those on Amazon and for the same price as the only useful current ones.

 

[Alfie168]

I've always been dubious about those ebay auctions "Flares. Only used once"

Tim

 

[prv]

The List of Lights gives info on lighthouses, lightships, and lit floating marks which are over 8m in height, (as well as fog signals etc).

Sure, but so do charts. You need a chart anyway to see where you are and what's around you, so what does the light list add?

There won't have been that many changes during the last 7 years, and those that have will be in NtM's.

Might be surprised - I was correcting my Channel charts the other week and there were quite a number of significant changes to lights and signals. These charts are all more recent printings than the light list.

Pete

 

[prv]

Just suppose that you were teaching a theory class, or even a practical class. Very very few of us actualy need a light list. We use the almanac or " up to date charts ". But if a student asked to actually see one to fulfill his learning experieance, how cool would you be to show him this one. I have never seen one, but the price of postage would definitly make it interesting to some people. We all own books etc which we would not actually use for navigation. Fair play for offerering it instead of just binning it.

Indeed, all good reasons and I hope no one took my post as meaning the buyer was a fool to buy it.

Pete

 

[Lucky Duck]

On another thread one contributer appeared quite happy having a five year old copy of Reeds onboard for navigation so maybe some people are more comfortable with having older information than others?

 

[prv]

On another thread one contributer appeared quite happy having a five year old copy of Reeds onboard for navigation so maybe some people are more comfortable with having older information than others?

Sure, but my understanding (as laid out in my original post) is that light lists are to provide a more up-to-date supplement to old charts. That being the case, what's the point of one that is older than most charts? Not the same thing as using an old Reeds.

Pete

 

[electrosys]

Sure, but so do charts. You need a chart anyway to see where you are and what's around you, so what does the light list add?

Well - the short answer is "I don't know for sure" ... but for a bit of conjecture:

... say you have just been in a bad storm, drifting for several days and for an unknown distance. GPS u/s etc (worst case situation). You spot a light, then from the info in the List of Lights, you will then be able to determine that light's Lat and Long, and from that info, which chart you should then be using ... (?)

I see the List as being an independent source of info, not as being one which is more up-to-date than charts etc (or vice versa). But of course, I could be totally wrong - as I often am.


Update - just done a Google - and from the UKHO's website (sorry about the caps):
THE UK MARITIME AND COASTGUARD AGENCY (MCA) ACCEPTS ADLL (ADMIRALTY DIGITAL LIST OF LIGHTS) AS MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS TO CARRY LIGHTS LISTS UNDER THE MERCHANT SHIPPING SAFETY OF NAVIGATION REGULATIONS 2002.

So it would seem that carrying a list of lights is similar to all ships carrying a magnetic compass - 'having the necessary' in case the brown stuff should ever hit the fan ...

 

[onesea]

From memory Lists of lights list are updated quicker than Charts.

Say a light has been destroyed in a storm but will be replaced in a short whilst it will be listed there but not corrected on the chart.

I am thinking they are some what superseded by Nav Warnings and Navtex

If there is a book that is worth buying if you can find cheap out of date or not. The Mariners Handbook I think is a great tool (the answer will be there). If you know where to look it might even be available as a download on line, but as ready reference a paper one is better.

Just becarfull of the Millennium Edition if start using it to avod a TRS you will be in S*&t they made major mistakes in it

 

[Robin]

The latest Lights List information is published in the almanacs I think, it certainly was (for the almanac area covered) in my favourite almanac, Votre Livre De Bord, from Bloc Marine France and covering from Dover Straits to Gibralter and both sides of the Channel included. It is years since I bought a PBO one and even more since I bought a Reeds, but IIRC the light list for the PBO one was updated with the monthly notices in the back of the magazine.

 

[jerryat]

Over on the for-sale forum, someone has just found a willing "buyer" (well, payer of postage costs) for a 2004 Admiralty light list. Now while I wish the buyer every happiness with their new purchase, I'm somewhat curious as to the possible use of it.

As a fairly short-range navigator I've never used such a thing, but my understanding of their purpose was to help keep up-to-date information on light characteristics if your chart-updating isn't as thorough as it might be (old or second-hand charts, just can't be bothered with corrections, or your potential voyaging area is very large and it's not feasible to keep a vast set of corrected charts at all times). So a light list that was itself out of date by 7 years or so wouldn't be much good.

Have I missed the point of a light list?

Pete

I am intrigued by this thread!

As purchaser of the item concerned, perhaps my view would be of interest.

I have a (now out of date) copy of the Admiralty lists of Radio Signals which I regularly used during my almost ten years cruising in the Med. and Caribbean including five transatlantic crossings, and it STILL fascinates me.

I didn’t buy this List of Lights and Fog Signals in order to have the ‘latest’ update, but for the sheer pleasure of reading it for the first time and seeing what is in it.

Maybe some will see this as 'sad'', but I don’t care, it’s what I want to do. Is it worth the money? I don't know yet. Would I have bought a brand new copy? No, I doubt it. But this offer from Manxpedro was just fine for me and I'm really looking forward to browsing it!!

I find that sometimes it's nice to do something that doesn't have a specific purpose and is done just for the hell of it!!!!

 

[MANXPEDRO]

Well, I'd never have thought, that listing something for 'FREE' would have caused such a stir!!!!

As being the 'seller' or 'donor', I thought it'd be some use to somebody, which it obviously is!

Lets face it, I recon 99% of us has some sort of out of date publication on their boat. I'd bet there wont be many people with a totally accurate chart on board. I still have a ring binder - 'SeaFile' from 1994!! (A bit like an Almanac but in a folder) an I've not come unstuck yet!!

PS: Jerry, it's in tomorrows post!

 

[electrosys]

I didn’t buy this List of Lights and Fog Signals in order to have the ‘latest’ update, but for the sheer pleasure of reading it for the first time and seeing what is in it.

... but should you ever decide to buy yourself an oil tanker, the book can be easily corrected from:
http://www.offshoreblue.com/assets/resources/navigation/light-lists/pub114-2011.zip

Which is worth a read in it's own right anyway ...

... and I've just been reminded by 'her indoors' that I have a copy of the International Code of Signals - 1969 vintage - possession of which is probably a hanging offence, but I find it damned useful for tilting back the computer monitor with.

 

[Boathook]

Sure, but my understanding (as laid out in my original post) is that light lists are to provide a more up-to-date supplement to old charts. That being the case, what's the point of one that is older than most charts? Not the same thing as using an old Reeds.

Pete

A lot of my charts are possibly older than 2004 so for me the light list would be newer. As the land does not seem to move to much I 'invest' in a new almanac each year which will hopefully give me the latest lights as I approach my destination.

 

[LadyInBed]

No point
Get them here for British Isles, English Channel and North Sea
Use the drop down for other areas and publications

Put that App on your phone prv

 

[jerryat]

Well, I'd never have thought, that listing something for 'FREE' would have caused such a stir!!!!

As being the 'seller' or 'donor', I thought it'd be some use to somebody, which it obviously is!

Lets face it, I recon 99% of us has some sort of out of date publication on their boat. I'd bet there wont be many people with a totally accurate chart on board. I still have a ring binder - 'SeaFile' from 1994!! (A bit like an Almanac but in a folder) an I've not come unstuck yet!!

PS: Jerry, it's in tomorrows post!

Hi ManxPedro!

Many thanks for that! As you say, what a response!

A Happy New Year to you and yours, and to all on here!

 

[BlueSkyNick]

No point
Get them here for British Isles, English Channel and North Sea
Use the drop down for other areas and publications

Put that App on your phone prv