Whats the maximum force wind I should be comfortable putting to sea with?

pompeydave

pompeydave

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Hi all, just considering a little jaunt for a few hours out of Langstone today. The boat is a 24' Trapper TS240, in good order and well equipped with new safety kit and a good radio and battery. I have 30+ years experience of motor boats but only ever went to sea if it was force 3 or less.

I'm new to sailing and I'm wondering what the general opinion is of a few hours out, being back by 17:00 ish this afternoon to get back on the berth before the waters gone.

The BBC forecast is:

A complex Atlantic low pressure system will move northeastwards, bringing unsettled and at times windy conditions to all areas by Monday.


Strong wind warning
11:00 UTC Sun 4th Oct – 10:59 UTC Mon 5th Oct
Wind
Southeast veering south later, 4 or 5, increasing 6 or 7 for a time.
Sea State
Slight, becoming moderate, occasionally rough.
Weather
Fair then occasional rain, showers later.
Visibility
Moderate or good, occasionally poor.

Opinions please? Too risky?
 
If you are "new to sailing", worried about the forecast and your intention is to go out to enjoy yourself (as opposed to testing yourself or challenging yourself), you probably already know the answer.

As with many things in life, it is often better to build experience in mild to moderate conditions before embarking on something more challenging.
 
Yep, good point. Think it's ok at the moment up here in Drayton on Portsdown hill, but I know it'll be more breezy down at the boat. We'll play it by ear. If too rough, we'll just potter around in the harbour to get some more time in.
 
The only weather that you can be 100% sure of is what is around you at any particular time. Weather forecasts are educated guesses and there is no guarantee that things will not be any better or worse than what they predict. In other words they are no substitute for a Mk I eyeball.

There is a saying in Bolivia that, loosely translated, says: "The weather is like a woman; you are never really sure about what's coming next!" ;)

Having said that, forecasts do give an idea of what may be expected. Personally I find that the animated graphics that are given on some weather sites are very useful in helping to better assess and decide on course of action. The one that I regularly use when planning a sail is www.windyty.com This was suggested by a forumite on here and I am very grateful for his heads-up, even though I have forgotten who he was. If he is reading this I thank him publicly and, if we ever meet, I shall buy him a beer
 
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Decided this morning not to go out (in Poole). wind steady 15 knots and forecast to increase with gusts up to 20 as the low moves in. OK if you fancy a brisk sail, but not a leisurely potter.
 
Well we went to the entrance of Langstone and it looked a bit iffy so we turned back and just ran up and down the harbour. Even that was bit scary at times. Got back ok though, cheers for the advice everyone.
 
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Looking at the Chimet stats I'm glad you went sailing. You made your decision based on what was infront of you but you were not deterred from going to the boat by the strong wind warning. I don't ignore those but they often put them up and you really want more specific timing information. Force 4 to 5 is nice sailing conditions for many but going up to a 6 or more I really try and avoid. So check a few more forecasts as I think that one can be over cautious and over generalized. From the sailing perspective I think what was against you was the direction, with the wind straight into the harbour mouth. A nice westerly and I expect you might have left the harbour. Good day to be on the boat given next week's yuk.
 
Wind strength is only one factor.
Together with the fetch (the distance the wind has blown over the water) it governs the size of the waves. Counter currents can make the waves steeper and less friendly (this is often called wind over waves). Then there is swell, the sometimes large and usually regular waves coming in from the Atlantic. Shipping forecasts usually only give that for the next 24 hours, though there are specialist forecasts which go much further ahead.
Finally there is you. As a general rule you will want to give up long before your boat does. So you need to experiment and gradually build experience in increasingly strong conditions.
 
Well, as a beginner to sailing but an experienced motor boater I'm aware of the power of the sea and tend to treat it with perhaps a tad too much respect compared to other braver souls. BUT, I always come back alive, which helps :).

I really don't like the way the boat heels such a long way over though. She's light and fast and I just wonder if a heavier, slower cruiser would be better for me? Dunno, I suspect I feel this way due to not being used to being heeled over in a boat.
 
pompeydave said:
Well, as a beginner to sailing but an experienced motor boater I'm aware of the power of the sea and tend to treat it with perhaps a tad too much respect compared to other braver souls. BUT, I always come back alive, which helps :).

I really don't like the way the boat heels such a long way over though. She's light and fast and I just wonder if a heavier, slower cruiser would be better for me? Dunno, I suspect I feel this way due to not being used to being heeled over in a boat.
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Get used to reefing so that you can do it easily.

The time to reef is when you first think about it so if the boat start to feels uncomfortable, tuck in a reef and make the boat comfortable. You will possibly find that she is quicker when more upright anyway. Reefing early is no bad thing. It suggests a decent spread of canvas which is handy when the wind is lighter as you will be able to sail when others resort to the engine.
 
Hello Pompeyedave. You will find that a sail boat is generally more confortable (once you get used to heel) than a mobo. You usually can't go any faster than a sail boat in rough weather due to pounding and bashing in waves. As said with a light sail boat reefing is the key. A good reef and right sized jib can turn a windy day into a fairly pleasant sail. Provided the waves are not too big.
Just tell your self that the heeling of the boat in a gust is a huge resilient safety feature. It shows the boat can bend to a gust and recover happily. I am sure your boat would be completely self righting so even when horizontal perhaps held down by a wild spinnacker your only real concerns are hanging on and where to put your feet on the side of the cockpit while waiting for her to right again. Indeed you should try to lay it down in flat waters to get a confidence.
Generally provided nothing goes wrong (failures) and you set the boat up correctly. (seal the open hatches) your little boat could survive anything. Not so the humans inside the most vulnerable part on the boat. So you need to discover what your personal limitations are regarding just how rough the weather is going to be and how long you will be trapped in it.
Incidentally my little boat had to meet certain Yachting Australia (RYA to you) requirments for racing. One being that front hatch must be able to be locked closed but opened from inside and out. Likewise the main hatch and wash boards must be able to be locked in place (even boat inverted) and sliding hatch locked closed yet all able to be opened from both inside and outside. Makes a lot of sense to be able to seal the boat in really rough weather. My little boat when horizontal has both front hatdch and main hatch well clear of water but in a real life knock down in rough conditions they would need to be closed to keep water out. So you are left in the cockpit, boat closed up (terrified passengers inside) you need to have a harness and strong points to stay on board.
But better still is to get to know what a forecast wind strength means to you in your location and sailing area. Experience will show if you are going to enjoy it or not. Which is what really matters. good luck olewill
 
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To PompeyDave
I suspect you have too much experience. Of motor boating! The words about reefing are all wise. You don't say if you reefed but if you did not in that wind strength you would have had quite a lively time. But my main point is about heeling. You have an awful lot of subconcious experience to unlearn. I love the sensation of heeling whilst my wife hates it. We compromise (mostly)..... And we have changed boats gradually but even now our Konsort can heel too far for her liking. So I would not change boats too soon. Heeling is part of sailing that maybe will take you in particular a long time to get used to.
And maybe there is a control issue. By and large in a MOBO the throttle allows you to do exactly what you want when you want. But with sailing although you can see gusts coming or know you will be hit by a gust as you come round the corner the associated increase in heel and the need to respond on the tiller still gets the adrenalin flowing and can feel uncomfortable.
Apologies if this all sounds a bit too obvious.
 
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In addition to the good advice above, I would counsel you to study the effect of wind and tide on harbour entrances, such as Langstone. The combination of a wind that requires a reef and the ebb tide can make such places hazardous and the resultant waves can depower a sailing boat. Often the best question is not if you can safely go out for a sail but whether you can return safely!
 
A few years back, the start of the season at weekends it was blowing old boots. I got fed up waiting for a sail, so we decided to put two reefs in the main and a well rolled up jib. We had a great sail in 28 knots, which was very illuminating in its own right, seeing how easily Gladys behaved in the conditions.
 
So many lessons to learn!
I left the Scillies for Wales with a forecast of S 3-4 going SW 4 and much studying of various websites. We motored for 2 hours then a light southerly started so engine off and headsail poled out and main. By 4pm we had drizzle, rain and intermittent fog AND a good 6/7 southerly. Steep seas and 12 hours on the helm in really foul conditions.

Forecasts are OK, websites are great, it is when you get out there and realise that predictions are just that, educated guesses, and seamanship takes over. It was not fun!!
 
Des Sleightholme said in a book that F4 in a 24footer would provide the best sailing and I think he was about right. My 34 gives good sailing in a F6 so long as its free, but there can be occasions when sailing to windward at the top of F4 can be quite splashy and tiresome, so it all depends on what you are doing and what the sea conditions are. On the other hand, any decent cruiser from 18' upwards will happily go anywhere even if the crew can't or won't.
 
Interesting replies, thanks all. My mate who comes with me on this boat has almost no experience of boating of any kind and he was fine to go to sea yesterday. It was my natural caution as an experienced motorboater that first raised questions as to whether we should go any further or not. There were lots of giveaway signs that it wasn't a good idea- white horses starting to appear on the wave crests, wind over tide starting to create ever deeper troughs at the entrance to Langstone, and the fact that hardly anyone else was out there. My mate even enjoyed heeling over to a degree, but I think this was out of blissful ignorance really. Reefing is something I can easily see how to do, and I just need to learn how best to react when a gust heels us over- turn into the wind or let the boom out a bit more?

In the ECA bar after we did suggest between us that maybe some lessons might be a good idea, but I don't feel I'm that far off getting the hang of it really. We're getting some of the basics wrong however as we keep jamming the sheets and halyards when using the winches, so somethings wrong there. I bought some good 'teach yourself sailing' type books at Beaulieu in April. Maybe it's time to start reading them in depth.
 
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