What's the best way to Reef downwind in 30 knots?

The wife and I were rounding Cape Malea (Greece Pelloponese) at the start of this season. (Furling genoa and inmast) We were reaching running down with in 37 kts well reefed in when we noticed a wind line on the water some way ahead. We furled in the remaining genoa and were hit by AP winds of 45-55 kts, we have a maxiroach main and we could not come up on a reach only run down wind as we had too much main up. We slowly bought her round pulling in the main sheet until we were head to wind (The only way we can reef the main) the noise was thunderous, we reefed further and continued on our way under main and genoa (Postage stamps) at between 7-9 kts in average 45 kts of wind. It was the most exciting sail we have had in 8 seasons on board.

When we reached Monemvasia we had a shattered Lewmar block on the boom and one on the main sheet due to all the violent flogging.
 
We sail the big boat for pleasure so while nice to go fast I have found on a Jeanneau 43 you don't want to frighten yourself by sailing gull winged.

When we race a dinghy its always faster to gybe downwind and never run dead downwind.

If I know we are going to be mostly downwind sailing with our large overlaping genoa I start with a reefed main as a full main just blankets the genoa.

If I found myself in your situation I get the engine going, would roll up the genoa and then pick my moment to go head to wind with the main halyard loosened as you head up the main will quickly drop. I use the autohelm on wind setting to hold it head to wind then reef down the main or even get rid of it altogether then go downwind under genoa alone.

With a fully battened main (with roach) and 3 reefs (bottom 2 single line) I have found it impossible to reef the main without going almost head to wind.

Please bear in mind that many offering advice mean well but many will not have any experience of reefing a large main on a 50' AWB. Some like Flaming have vast experience of many types of boats and are worth taking note of their comments. In mast reefing has its advantages when shorthanded but I think many have problems with the sail getting stuck.

I sailed back from Spain in 2004 on my own and while not ideal it does make you think more about being prepared before the event including down wind sail plans.
 
whiteshythe said:
Gybe your Genoa so that it is now on the same side and in the lee of your main. Assuming you have a roller reefing headsail, you can now reef it as required, then sheet it in hard.
Now bring the boat up onto a beam reach, but DO NOT sheet in the main.
The main will be flapping and backwinded by the Genoa, but will be easy to lower. Above all the boat will not be overpowered.
Any method that involves going head to wind, even if to heave to, will involve
a wind over the deck in excess of 40kts, which with full sail, I am sure you would rather avoid!
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This.....but I'd furl the headsail, head up a tad to stop the potential gybe, take down the pole and leave it stowed in 30 knots. You'll have less sail area now, so will have slowed down while you stow the pole, get back to the cockpit and then let out some headsail, not all of it, and proceed as above.

Works a treat.

Next time if you're thinking about reefing, do it! It's easier to do it when you want to, that when you have to.
 
penfold said:
Sounds more like an Aerorig to me; good idea but alarmingly high capital costs and some people don't like the aesthetics.
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Very similar but with a freely-rotating wing section for the mast. As one poster snidely pointed out, they'll never catch on commercially because they are a) expensive and b) unconventional. The expense is mitigated by the fact that you don't have to pay for stays or replace them regularly and there are no massive winches and deck tracks etc.

An awful lot of people sail Lasers successfully but the idea of a fully-rotating unstayed rig freaks people when they move up to bigger boats. The Aerorig principle was invented in the 1930s and fitted to a Bembridge Redwing but after one season it was banned because it won every trophy. Most people imagine that unstayed masts impose massive loads on the hull but some simple physics shows the stresses are no higher than with a stayed rig.

Coming back to this thread, the biggest advantage for deep-water sailing is the ability to turn downwind and reduce the apparent wind while reefing. You can also spill wind on a run when a squall comes through, very handy in the tradewinds.

Freewing
 
snooks said:
Next time if you're thinking about reefing, do it! It's easier to do it when you want to, that when you have to.
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I love Stokey Woodall's maxim:

"The time to reef is when you first think of it. The time to shake out a reef is after you've had a cup of tea."
 
Marsupial said:
Yes that works some of the time, but what would you do if it didnt? I was in such a position a few years ago, the main wouldnt furl the selden inmast rig was less than 1 season old (had inmast for many years on old boat previously with jamming issues cured by fitting new main - assured the new systems were good - they lied). Scary moments - sold boat - new boat has slab.
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I have been using in-mast furling for years. Z-Spars first and now Selden. I find the latter a much better system but neither ever jammed.
 
simon10 said:
I have been caught a couple of times in strong winds with to much canvas up. I know I should have reefed earlier, but I have left to late. Yet again, I was thinking that the wind might drop off.

I was sailing Goosewinged with a preventer on, in the south coast of England, with full canvas up, in 20 knots of wind on a 10 hour passage. After a few of hours in, it has increased to 30 knots, also just to add a bit of spice the tide had now changed, and we are now sailing wind against 2 knots of tide creating a nice chop.

My boat is a Beneteau 50 with single line slab reefing, fully battened sail with a Harken track and cars up the mast. So is it possible to slowly ease the halyard & reef a couple of feet a time sailing downwind?
What would be the safest and easiest way to bring the boat under control, with only my wife as crew?
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The only time I've tried it in earnest was sailing downwind in a F5-6 expecting worse to come accross Biscay in a long keeled Nic 38' ketch, when we scandalised the main by hoisting the boom via the topping lift until it was depowered. The main then was able to be reefed, but not easy for a short handed crew in a modern sloop of your size I reckon. The long keel and ketch would possibly have given us more stability? However, in 30 knots???
 
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Boo2 said:
Is that your "Snowleopard" on the photos page on that site ? My only comment is the rig appears a bit heavier than a normal rig, is that true or does the CF rig weigh around the same as a normal alloy stayed rig
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Yes, that's me. The all-up weight of the rig is about the same as a conventional rig including stays. However the CG is quite a bit lower.
 
simon10 said:
Thanks for that, interesting about the backwind bit. Yes maybe, I should have ordered Inmast Furling. I chose Slab Reefing after seeing many jammed in the Med, probably from miss handling. My sail’s are a lot of sail to handle for a husband & wife weekend sailing team.
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And there is the rub.

First mate and I sail a just short of 12 metre cutter rigged yacht, usually just the two of us.

It had the OE 135% Genoa when we got her.

Our sailing is mostly UK southern waters at present-but planning Ireland, IOM, West Scotland later this year.

In the aid of easier boat handling for a mid sixties couple we changed the big Genoa for a high cut 100% Yankee.

It is now easily handled, has much better visibility under the foot and appears not to have affected performance-not that we have any in light winds anyway!

The OE reefing system was single line. In use-perhaps I should say attempted use-it had so much friction that it was all but impossible to reef successfully.

I have changed it to conventional slab reefing using a rams horn and re-reeving the lines.

Much easier to handle now-much less effort and as I had to go forward to the mast anyway its no more trouble and an easier job.

Sailing a good sized yacht-and I consider yours to be a good sized yacht-as a couple requires teamwork and a measure of physical ability.

If the physical stuff gets a bit forbidding, you may have to do as we did and make compromises.

If the physical stuff is OK for you, the advice from the competent sailors here should be looked at and a method that suits your circumstances tried.

I hope it works out-Good Sailing!
 
It seems to me that reefing the main down wind is all a question of what can be done. As said friction on the spreaders and in my case friction in the mast track make it very difficult. The only option is to turn into the wind . Beam reaching may be sufficient to get the main down. If not you must turn further into the wind until you can get the main down.
Certainly I am convinced 2 line reefing so that a tack reefing line can be pulled down witha winch will give you your best chance. good luck olewill
 
Simon,
We have 44ft boat with fully battened main on cars. Reefing on our boat means going to the mast. In the conditions you describe, we pull the mainsheet in to about 45 degrees and put the kicker on to support the boom. I would simply ease the halyard and pull the main down with the full length battens resting on the aft lowers. I don't alter course but prefer this as it keeps the apparent wind down whilst working on the deck. I don't find this approach a problem and one person can do this whilst the other remains in the cockpit. Our decks are flush so I always feels safe working on deck
 
With a fully battened main, 22.5 degree aft swept spreaders and single-handed it's a situation I avoid. With my first two reefs being single-line and an oversize main I'm already down to 2 reefs in 30knots apparent downwind and would be considering putting in the 3rd reef (with one to go). At that point the boat would be surfing.

If it's running too much of a sea to come up to wind, I'd haul in the mainsheet to bring the main fore&aft, to clear the spreaders, and inch the sail down using the reefing winch and a length of line on the luff and the clew-line. The secret is to do it in little bites and avoid catching the main on the spreaders.

When it was in, I'd go back to the cockpit, apologise to the Autohelm and give myself a good kicking for incompetence.

Having said that, 24 years of single-handing has taught me that you'll always find a new way to get caught out.
 
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rotrax said:
And there is the rub.

First mate and I sail a just short of 12 metre cutter rigged yacht, usually just the two of us.

It had the OE 135% Genoa when we got her.

Our sailing is mostly UK southern waters at present-but planning Ireland, IOM, West Scotland later this year.

In the aid of easier boat handling for a mid sixties couple we changed the big Genoa for a high cut 100% Yankee.

It is now easily handled, has much better visibility under the foot and appears not to have affected performance-not that we have any in light winds anyway!

The OE reefing system was single line. In use-perhaps I should say attempted use-it had so much friction that it was all but impossible to reef successfully.

I have changed it to conventional slab reefing using a rams horn and re-reeving the lines.

Much easier to handle now-much less effort and as I had to go forward to the mast anyway its no more trouble and an easier job.

Sailing a good sized yacht-and I consider yours to be a good sized yacht-as a couple requires teamwork and a measure of physical ability.

If the physical stuff gets a bit forbidding, you may have to do as we did and make compromises.

If the physical stuff is OK for you, the advice from the competent sailors here should be looked at and a method that suits your circumstances tried.

I hope it works out-Good Sailing!
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If expecting a few days of wind, I change down to the 65% working jib which, by happenstance rolls on the furler.
The solent, superb for getting to windward, which is 100%, is a deck-hugger, has already lost two labels from incoming waves and has to be handled manually both up and down - rather much for a single hander who's 25% older than you.

My main is about the same size as yours, but has 4 reefs. The first two are single-line, easy to use as I'm using 8mm dyneema with 75mm Harken carbo air-blocks, but I'd agree that friction is the greatest enemy of single line reefing. Mine was designed with Harken US (UK were a waste of time), before they put it on their website. It takes me about 45" to put in the first, by the time one gets to the second there's definitely too much string in the cockpit (6:1 purchase) and because I've used the old outer, ZSpars reef-line pulley, infinitely more difficult to put in.
 
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