What's the best way to build skills and confidence?

[dylanwinter]

utterly agree

Buy a small cheap boat and go sailing. Nothing quite like it being your own boat and all your own decisions.

Then come on here and ask why things didn't quite go to plan.

That's what if did / do.

Nothing beats actually doing it.

buy a cheap boat 18 to 20 feet - which you can keep somewhere cheap

or a trailer sailer

get an outboard you can trust and a decent life jacket

go sailing somewhere safe

the broads is a great place, a big estuary is perfect, a lake

sail solo

- you will learn more about yourself and your abilities within two days than you will learn on a course and it will be cheaper than a flotilla

you might even decide that small boat sailing is better than sailing a depth challenged behemoth

take a look at boats and outboards under the trailer sailing section

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/...ice_from=&price_to=3000&kword2=&Submit=Search

A westerly nimrod is perfect - big cockpit, sails like a dinghy, done the round UK circuit a few times

the good thing about a trailer sailer is that you can challenge yourself by moving to new sailing areas


D

 

[uxb]

Buy a small cheap boat and go sailing. Nothing quite like it being your own boat and all your own decisions.

Then come on here and ask why things didn't quite go to plan.

That's what if did / do.

Nothing beats actually doing it.

Absolutely. Some knowledge, a little common sense and you'll be fine.

People with zero experience have sailed across oceans.

 

[Maxi Windsong]

Given bows-to is rare in the Med, if the bit of wood was screwed to the bows, someone didn't know their stem from their stern!

(Though I did find exactly that misprint in a Collins dictionary years ago; I still have their letter thanking me for pointing it out!)

Mike.

My experience is exactly the opposite - I've been on three flotillas in Greece with two different companies (neither of them Sailing Holidays) in boats in the 30 to 35ft size range and we berthed bows too every single night

 

[mjcoon]

My experience is exactly the opposite - I've been on three flotillas in Greece with two different companies (neither of them Sailing Holidays) in boats in the 30 to 35ft size range and we berthed bows too every single night

Er, why? Were you a honeymoon couple (but not on multiple trips, surely!) who wanted privacy from people gawping down your companionway? The usual technical reason is to avoid rocks which might damage the rudder, but on neat quays that should not apply.

It can be a challenge getting off over a pulpit and down from the bows (even not carrying shopping/luggage); there was a thread here some months ago about exactly that.

Mike.

 

[Maxi Windsong]

I agree with the various pros and cons of bows too or stern too mooring, though I personally prefer the privacy of being bows too even when not on my honeymoon (!) and have found that with a "scaffold board" type of gang plank that Sunsail provided, it is really not too dificult to get on over the bow on smaller boats(<35ft).

However that doesn't answer your question - the reason we did it is that we were told to berth that way by the flotilla skipper (three different ones)and therefore all of the boats on each of the flotillas berthed bows too. We were on flotillas because of our limited experience at the time, and followed instructions.

So to get back to your original point, I would guess (but don't know) that Sailing Holidays do indeed have a wood strip on the bow of their boats and that with their flotillas, which I believe are generally smaller boats, they do typically berth bows too

 

[Nico]

Given bows-to is rare in the Med, if the bit of wood was screwed to the bows, someone didn't know their stem from their stern!

It may be rare among those that charter 40 footers for two people, but for those who cut their teeth on Sailing Holidays Jaguars or similar Cobras etc. from other companies it was standard practice to point your bow at the "gap" and at a critical point chuck your kedge out of the plastic bucket hung off the pulpit. Sticky morse controls with iffy neutrals combined with patches of eel-grass would eventually catch somebody out.

 

[tigr]

Yes get your own boat and sail around but it is always a bit scary, especially if the waters are a bit crowded. Just came back from a weeks flotilla sailing with Sailing Holidays and would say it is a good thing to do to help build confidence. Also you will use the anchor a lot and experience stern to and bows to mooring, a very different game. We did not get much help from our lead skipper, his instructions were this pulls the sail out, this brings it in, don't pull anything else - off you go! His morning briefing was to be at an end point at the end of the day at a certain time, not much mention of anything that could get in the way of this. He was there to guide us in to our mooring at the end of the day but did not like us being late as it affected his social life...
Most of the boat users did not have much experience but all survived, including when one ran out of diesel as it had not been filled up, bit worrying being stuck without wind or power. Had to go and help as the lead ship did not have radio or telephone on!
So not all good but it did not change the outcome, we went as a family, my wife hates boats and gets very seasick which we cured with sturgeon 15. We met lots of great people and were welcomed by the friendly Greeks. Not sure the wife and children will now come on UK sail but all want to go again next year if we can afford it.
OK the amount of sailing and basic navigation etc varies but it is all good practise and a very good way to get a few miles under your belt in a quieter environment

 

[Babylon]

Buy a small cheap boat and go sailing. Nothing quite like it being your own boat and all your own decisions.

Then come on here and ask why things didn't quite go to plan.

That's what if did / do.

Nothing beats actually doing it.

That way the way for me, and it worked a complete treat!

Another vote for get out and sail.

Don't buy your own boat until you've really got a bit more experience. I've met too many who have rushed out and bought their own boat after only a little experience. They generally plateau quite early on the learning curve. They can learn to muddle through by being extremely cautious but you'll become a far better seaman far quicker by learning from a range of experienced skippers before you put yourself in the position of learning on your own.

I both disagree and agree with this - but on balance I disagree.

Going out regularly on your own (first, small, easy-to-handle) boat will quickly, radically improve your skills and your confidence. And you don't have to stop there! Crack on with doing the YM Theory, read a few relevant books and come on here to ask for advice.

And - if you can - join a local club, with or without your own boat. You'll find a lot of encouragement and support, and by doing club rallies you'll be pushed to go places everyone is going. If you're uncertain, then ask: almost everyone will be helpful and reassuring. You can also ask around the club if experienced skippers will take you on as crew - e.g. for your first Channel crossing or the suchlike. In this way, you can measure yourself against others and learn from them.

Whatever you do, keep pushing yourself; set yourself aims for each year, and cultivate dreams for future years.

Good luck!

 

[PhillM]

I didn't say this earlier, because its not a great idea, but it just happened to work for me.

I brought an old wooden boat, in need of some TLC. I did NOT realise how much TLC and how much it would cost. However, I now know every single part of my boat and I have the confidence that I can fix or "get-me-home" bodge just about anything. There is no part that I have not touched, nothing that has not been researched and considered and nothing that I do not understand why and how it got there.

Doesn't mean I am any great sailor though!

While I have not covered the number of miles, or even had the different sailing experiences that other people had in their first 3 years, what I do have a is a great grounding in how my boat works and how to keep her going.

I had three rules:

1) Never start a job that means I cannot sail the boat in the summer.
2) Never start a job I did not have the time or money to finish
3) Don't employ anyone who was not prepared to teach me what they were doing and allow me to work alongside them.

As I say, I have been both lucky with the original buy, lucky that cash (mostly) became available when I have needed it, luck to live close to the marina and very lucky with the boatyard people with whom I have worked - in quite a few cases have become friends.

Not for everyone, but its an option to consider. I intend to keep my boat for the next 10 years, at least. I doubt I will ever do a project quite like this again. Once is enough but its been a fun, steep learning curve.


BTW do NOT buy a project that cannot be instantly be taken sailing. Improvement is one thing, bringing a boat back life is another.

 

[lpdsn]

I both disagree and agree with this - but on balance I disagree.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've no idea of your sailing abilities and probably never will, nor will you of mine so we can't comment on how well either of us have learnt or been taught to sail.

However, based on those I've met & sailed with, the ones that muddle through, have bad habits that they've got away with for years or are very wary of doing something that is eminantly do-able, have taught themselves to sail; those who are slick and competent and whom I would trust in an emergency or out of the ordinary conditions have had a mentor or two earlier in their sailing careers. Of course there are exceptions to every generalisation, but it doesn't mean the general trend is wrong.

I've been in a couple of positions where, generally through some form of gear failure, I'd have lost a boat if I hadn't acted quickly. I can assure you that experience gained dealing with emergencies as crew under a number very experienced skippers is what made the difference.

 

[mjcoon]

It may be rare among those that charter 40 footers for two people, but for those who cut their teeth on Sailing Holidays Jaguars or similar Cobras etc. from other companies it was standard practice to point your bow at the "gap" and at a critical point chuck your kedge out of the plastic bucket hung off the pulpit. Sticky morse controls with iffy neutrals combined with patches of eel-grass would eventually catch somebody out.

Ah, OK, I do remember doing it that way years ago; had forgotten! Nowadays we are spoilt by having "lazy lines" to pick up in many places, so no kedge-in-a-bucket. In fact recently we wanted the kedge and not only was it in the bottom of the cockpit locker, the chain was not even attached to it! This was on a flotilla, but the yacht supplied by Vernicos Yachting.

Mike.

 

[mjcoon]

So to get back to your original point, I would guess (but don't know) that Sailing Holidays do indeed have a wood strip on the bow of their boats and that with their flotillas, which I believe are generally smaller boats, they do typically berth bows too

I have to admit that my three trips on SH boats were probably not typical. One (2011) was the Ionian "Faraway" route, but we did not get to those islands. The other two (2012) were on bigger than normal yachts: 36ft delivery trip Corfu to near Athens and 44ft Saronic and Argolic gulfs. So perhaps not surprising there was not much (perhaps no) bows-to, and certainly no kedge-in-a-bucket. Didn't notice any wooden strips. Skipper on latter 2 trips is YM with many miles under belt, so would not have appreciated having such drawn to his attention!

Mike.

 

[Babylon]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've no idea of your sailing abilities and probably never will, nor will you of mine so we can't comment on how well either of us have learnt or been taught to sail.

However, based on those I've met & sailed with, the ones that muddle through, have bad habits that they've got away with for years or are very wary of doing something that is eminantly do-able, have taught themselves to sail; those who are slick and competent and whom I would trust in an emergency or out of the ordinary conditions have had a mentor or two earlier in their sailing careers. Of course there are exceptions to every generalisation, but it doesn't mean the general trend is wrong.

I've been in a couple of positions where, generally through some form of gear failure, I'd have lost a boat if I hadn't acted quickly. I can assure you that experience gained dealing with emergencies as crew under a number very experienced skippers is what made the difference.

Some people can think clearly and act/delgate effectively in an emergency or urgent situation, others are not wired that way and simply freeze or go into an unhelpful flap. Although training and mentoring is of clear benefit to everyone, there are those who'll never be up to the standards you speak of. I've taught both sorts of people (both in my day-job and on board my boat), and sometimes those who're steady, dependable and capable in such a way lack other attributes which are also valuable - both as skippers and as crew.

But what we're talking about here isn't preparing someone for the emergency services. The OP has just gained his DS practical course certificate and wants to gain more experience. One very effective way to do this is to get a boat and go sailing. It is then entirely dependent on the person themselves as to whether they're muddlers who'll always be content to potter about within their own safe-enough comfort-zone, or natural self-improvers who have a keener gauge of their own abilities and limitations and constantly push themselves.

Either way, there's nothing like being the guy with whom the buck stops to radically improve one's experience and skills.

 

[lpdsn]

Either way, there's nothing like being the guy with whom the buck stops to radically improve one's experience and skills.

As I said we can happily disagree. I believe that sooner or later every learner reaches the level where they will learn best by being in the position where the buck stops with them, so in that sense I agree with your statement that I've quoted above. I just believe it can be harmful for the majority if they are thrown in to that position too early and my observations are that, of those, a large proportion either reach a plateau where they sail within tight self-imposed constraints (e.g. rarely leaving the Solent and not going out with a 6 in the forecast) or they give up and go away. Behind the old joke that some people only have two good days on their boat: "the day they buy it and the day they sell it" there can be a sad story of someone who falls short of what they could've got out of sailing as a hobby.

Anyway, each to their own. I retain my opinion and am quite happy for you to retain yours.

 

[ProMariner]

Most learning is not the result of instruction. It is rather the result of unhampered participation in a meaningful setting. -- Ivan Illich

 

[Babylon]

Most learning is not the result of instruction. It is rather the result of unhampered participation in a meaningful setting. -- Ivan Illich

He's (partially) right!

My first 'meaningful' experience of the sea was nearly drowning when I was trying to teach myself to windsurf off Hayling Island as a fit twenty-two year-old: in an increasing wind and a growing spring tide against it, I lost my rig and was swept out to a cold, confused sea, exhausted and alone on small plastic board!

The 'learning' I gained from this - when I much later on took up small yacht sailing - was to gain proper instruction. This I did up to DS theory/practical, which I believe to be a sufficient basic level for most aspiring small-boat sailors (who didn't grow up racing Opi's and cruising on their parents' yacht) before getting out there and skippering a boat on their own.

I've now logged 5,000 NM coastal and offshore, of which 3,500 have been on my own boat. That's been over nine summers. Over eight winters I've done further theory up to YM, some specialist courses (survival, vhf, radar, 1st aid), read an obscene number of books on sailing and voyaging, and have crewed on a bigger yacht with an experienced skipper crossing Biscay from Falmouth to Gibraltar.

It helps to have a small, easily-handled but seaworthy boat of my own.

But what really helps is the instinct to just get out there and do it!

 

[Iain C]

Think of DS as a driving license. It gives you enough to get out there, and REALLY start to learn by experience. You will actually chuckle at how little you use an awful lot of what you have learned...I've had my boat for about 4 years now and done many thousands of miles, and I have worked up a course to steer about 3 times. Usually, where I sail on the south coast, it's either with you, or against you. Simples.

I sailed big boats as a kid and as a teenager but did very, very little in my 20s and early 30s. So I could already sail and handle a big boat (the easy bit) and id been racing all kinds if dinghies during that time. So when I got my big boat DS shorebased was more of a refresher (what do you mean you can't find where you are on ch88 on the VHF anymore?) and learning chart work properly to fall back on.

First time I skippered my "project" boat from Gosport to Cowes (albeit with zero electronics, no cooker, leaky bits, awful sail control systems and lots of other horrors, as well as lots of lines drawn all over my brand new charts and copious notes and passage plans) it felt like a major achievement. As you get to know your boat and improve it, and your cruising waters, you will become so much more confident. We are not long back from the channel islands, with all the excitement of big tides, races, shipping lanes, night sailing in confined waters and all of that good stuff, without batting an eyelid in the same very well equipped 41 year old boat that I now know like the back of my hand that performed fautlessley.

It really is a case of just getting out there and doing it...if you do get your own boat IMHO the biggest thing you need to look at as a newbie is getting to know the boat, starting to trust it, work out what might go wrong, and have the tools and a plan to fix it, be that a kedge anchor because you've got your tidal calculations wrong, or something as simple as a pack of emergency nav lights...and more importantly the batteries to go in them and the brackets already mounted to the boat.

Get out there...you'll be amazed just how much you really start learning in the real world!