whats fuel additive do you use?

I don't use any fuel additive. Do you think you need one - what are you expecting of it? i.e. is there a problem you are hoping to resolve by using an additive?
 
I have always used Fuel Set. It inhibits bacterial growth and helps waxing in cold weather. It is recommended by Eberspacher who say the majority of problems on their heaters are caused by one or the other. I did have a mild dose of bacterial growth last winter when I didn't use it. Otherwise have found it fine. IMHO beware of anything that purports to "cure" bacterial growth. Especially those based on an ensyme. I have had to rebuild 2 fuel pumps for people who used this stuff. I couldn't swear that it was a direct result but again IMHO once you have the bug the only remedy is to flush it out. Prevention is better than cure and Fuel Set has always worked for me.
 
Biobor. You never think you need it until you get the bug. Done it twice, most unpleasant job to sort. Suspect fuel from Morocco and Cape Verdes. Since using addative, no more problems.

Hope this helps.
 
There was a comparison in PBO a few months ago I seem to recall. I think the main difference was that some can halt the problem but others can actualy get rid of the problem.

I had some diesel that was spilt into a bucket and mixed with water. It was jelly when I found it. Would not fancy that in the fuel lines.
 
I have a small manual pump that sucks fuel out from the bottom of each tank - from a small sump - which I pump into a jam jar for inspection. I seldom get more than 1/20th teaspoon of water, but the fuel goes back into the tank minus whatever water there is.

I suspect that if there is no water or sludge there is no problem - i.e. these bugs don't live in diesel, they live in the interface between diesel/water or any emulsion.

The cost of fitting this arrangement would be less than £50 - how much additive would that buy?
 
where are you cruising in the western med? I just sold a Nauticat 44 called Susy.

We are in Puerto Duquesa between Estepona and Sotogrande costa del sol.

Back to the subject. how big is you tank and how much fuel does she hold?
Only say this cos I have two 1000 litre tanks, the manufactures always put vertical baffles at regular intervals within the tanks, and they never fit sumps or drain plugs.
So I imagine it would be damn near impossble for me to remove all the crap from the entire tank.
 
[ QUOTE ]
These bugs don't live in Diesel ..... WRONG!!!

[/ QUOTE ]Do you happen to know what the bugs actually are...the name of the bacteria?
 
I have two wing tanks totalling 750litres and AFAIK there are no baffles. Nauticat fitted the sump drain and pump. The Nauticat 43 has the same arrangement.

I also have a Separ separator before the (very capable) Yanmar filter and the Separ lasts years between services (mind you, I do try to sail as much as possible).
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a small manual pump that sucks fuel out from the bottom of each tank - from a small sump - which I pump into a jam jar for inspection. I seldom get more than 1/20th teaspoon of water, but the fuel goes back into the tank minus whatever water there is.

I suspect that if there is no water or sludge there is no problem - i.e. these bugs don't live in diesel, they live in the interface between diesel/water or any emulsion.

The cost of fitting this arrangement would be less than £50 - how much additive would that buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorrt but the Diesel - water interface is only part of the story ... there is also the Sulphur Reducing Bacteria that some live in diesel alone.

The problem in fact is not the LIVING bugs ... it's when they die and create a bulk sediment. As living organism they do not clump and form large enough mass to be a serious problem ... but dead they fall to bottom of tank ... forms the horrible brown-black gunge you hear about ... THAT clogs the system.

Despite my knowledge of the problem .. I actually have to admit to creating my own failure of pump and filters !!

Having got my boat out here to Baltic .. she had about 1/2 tank of red still in. So I siphoned out after she had stood for winter ... filtered the fuel ... used Pela to suck out bottom of tank as best as possible. Put fuel back.
Before she left UK - the engine had run strangely and it was decided to leave all till she got here and get engineer to look. It was found that inj. pump governor wasn't working. So I was offered a replacement pump from a friend in UK .. I instructed couriers to collect and was fitted to boat. When launched - beautiful !! Ran a dream.

So being smart ... I decided to add solvents - diesel system cleaners - to break up any crud and keep this recon pump / filters working.
On trip back from Sweden with boat ... having covered about 500nm ... probably total 600nm since pump / filters fitted ... the engine stopped. Filters and pump solid !
Local engineer has cleaned out the old pump and refitted it ... the replacement recon one is now undergoing cleaning ...

Basically what happened ? All crud in bottom of tank that wasn't remived by Pela was probably quite solid ... but adding additives and the motion of the boat crossing Baltic must have lifted it and broken it up enough to get sucked into the system .... it then overpowered the filters and blocked the high pressure side of the Inj. pump.

So what am I saying ? Beware of adding too much cleaner if you have a sedimentary problem in the tank. If you do - then make sure you use the cleaner to make siphoning / extraction FROM tank easier and don't expect to burn it via the engine.
I am wary of claims of some additives ... I am in the fuel biz and we use TONS of additives ..... industrial, not the retail stuff ......

When boat is lifted for winter - it's planned to circulate the fuel via filters ... literally using it to scour the tank and through filters back to tank again etc. Keep it going till fuel circulates near clear .... (I have high pressure low volume pumps special for additives to ships etc. - that should do the job !!)


So even "experts" make a mistake !!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These bugs don't live in Diesel ..... WRONG!!!

[/ QUOTE ]Do you happen to know what the bugs actually are...the name of the bacteria?

[/ QUOTE ]


The bacteria is actually a wide term as it consists of Yeast, Moulds and other bacteria ... including the SRB type - Sulphur Reducing Bacteria.

ALL diesel has them ... let me say that again ... ALL diesel has them. They are there in the product through all stages of refining and shipment. There is a market maximum specification based on Colony Forming Units per litre.
The test for them is IP389 and takes 5 days under incubation conditions to conduct.

More info than this is commercial ......
 
So, the realatively simple job of cleaning the tank and fuel lines by hand (steam and probes) is still the best and most effective?
 
IMHO yes ....

Once clean - then use of biocide at intervals to keep it from collecting again may be sensible. I do not agree that every fill-up should use it ... but that's my opinion. I reckon that fill-ups can be done without because the dose rates IMHO are more than required - so dilution can be allowed ....

BUT it is MY OPINION ..............
 
Nigel,

I've been following discussions on additives for years - bugs, bacteria, enzymes, and all manner of hocus pocus from goodness knows who, and have yet to get to the stage where anything passes even the most cursory research.

It seems that IP389 does not cover the incubation or culture of any micro-organisms.

Meanwhile manufacturers continue to sell bottles of dyed-green paraffin with fancy labels for tens of pounds (!!!).

Maybe it is all too much of a commercial secret for it to be shared with the likes of me but there is an established procedure for doing that - patent or other IPR copyright. If something is laid down in a spec such as IP then it isn't a commercial secret and if it isn't in a spec people would be well advised to leave it on the shelf and not pour it in their engines (unless it is just the usual paraffin, then who cares?).
 
[ QUOTE ]
Nigel....
It seems that IP389 does not cover the incubation or culture of any micro-organisms.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I to admit a typing error !!... IP385 is the test we use to determine Yeasts, Moulds and Bacteria contamination of Diesel fuels. The term "Bugs" is a word that really is a misnamed affair. Micro-organisms do exist and are accepted as indicated by IP385 with the Yeast / Moulds / Bacteria count and as per spec. is maximum total 1000 CFU.
SRB's (Sulphur Reducing Bacteria) are indicated by another test SAM 103 and should be as per spec - Not Detected

(If you see all the test numbers / methods we have to cover ... it's easy to type wrong number occasionally !! especially when I don't have the books in front of me - as when I'm completing a test report for client !!)

The problem comes that lay-terms often are wrongly assigned ... bit like Hoover for Vacuum Cleaner etc.

The products on the shelf - probably do what they say to some extent ... but IMHO there is no witches cure for all ... We have been developing various additives as cocktails to solve many different problems including the Micro-contamination matter. Where it falls down is the other matters in the fuel that can inhibit action of additive.

Example ... ULSD can in fact contain up to 5% Biodiesel in form of FAME. That 5% can inhibit Winterisation additives so much that any off-shelf product designed for straight diesel can fail completely. Similarly with "Bug" treatments.
There are other factors - introduction of additives generally in production / blending of products can create strange action on introduction of retail witches brews !! even on introduction of trade additives as we have. But we have the expertise to know how much and what we can add.

I can only advise that if you believe you have a problem and have the time to try it out ... siphon of an amount and dose it away from the tank .. see what happens. Hopefully it should work and then you can dose your on-board system. You will be doing what we basically do with new / altered blends
or with new additive trials we conduct.

So you can now see that the market is not so simple to cater for ... which means company's such as mine are active on it and wish to not pass on our trade secrets !!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top