Whatever happened to the Chart Table?

I wouldn't buy a boat without a forward facing chart table.

Whenever passage-making (Not messing about in the Solent!)I try to make 1/2-1 hourly plots so if the electric's fail I will still have a pretty good idea where I am.
 
I entirely agree, I too wouldn't consider any boat that didn't provide that basic necessity. Whilst its use for chartwork is by far the most important function for us, ours is used for many other occupations as well.

I cannot conceive of using the saloon table for chartwork on passage, let alone siting the laptop there underway!!

We neither have, nor intend fitting, any form of electronic plotter or the like, so charts, which we LOVE using, will form the core of our navigation for the forseeable future. Yes, we do have a computer that would run a nav. prog if needed, but it's primary use is for the receipt of wefaxes and RTTY weather info. via our HF transceiver.

Each to their own of course, but give me a set of charts, and a decent place to use 'em, and I'm a happy bunny!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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What an informed and fascinating viewpoint from a first poster... ( /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif to you too!)

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Oh.... So a first poster should only come in with something which doesn't disagree with your viewpoint or offend your sensibilities then? I'm really sorry to have got it wrong being a mere 'first poster' and yourself clearly being such an established forumite.... My apologies.... perhaps you would be good enough to alter the T&C's of this forum so that other first time posters don't make the same mistake?
I do sincerely hope that this isn't one of those annoying forum where the 'old timers' of the forum dominate everything with their 'in jokes' and strong opinions at the cost of others? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
As far as I know they still do use them. They definitely aren't allowed to rely on one system (e.g. GPS). It may be that an electronic dead reckoning system or inertial nav is the alternative. The three most useless things in aviation: maps in the briefcase, fuel in the bowser and the runway behind you.
 
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What an informed and fascinating viewpoint from a first poster... ( /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif to you too!)

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Oh.... So a first poster should only come in with something which doesn't disagree with your viewpoint or offend your sensibilities then? I'm really sorry to have got it wrong being a mere 'first poster' and yourself clearly being such an established forumite.... My apologies.... perhaps you would be good enough to alter the T&C's of this forum so that other first time posters don't make the same mistake?
I do sincerely hope that this isn't one of those annoying forum where the 'old timers' of the forum dominate everything with their 'in jokes' and strong opinions at the cost of others? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Wonderful entrance! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I for one would like to welcome you and hope that you will always be ready and willing to say what you think, no matter how long you have been with us!
If I'm totally honest, in this last response, you have only said what a number of people like myself would have loved to have said a few time but have allowed ourselves to be silenced in fear of the 'old timers'!

BTW.... I see that you have a Clasship? I looked over one which was moored up near us some 10 years ago in the Med and found it a most intersting big yacht, if yours is the same type of thing.... it certainly would live up to your name of Ocean Wanderer.......
 
Welcome Oceanwanderer. Enjoy the forum - everyone will be happy again once the sailing gets underway. Say what you think just like everybody else does. Your opinion is as valid, or possibly more so, as many here.
 
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I do sincerely hope that this isn't one of those annoying forum where the 'old timers' of the forum dominate everything with their 'in jokes' and strong opinions at the cost of others? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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If I'm totally honest, in this last response, you have only said what a number of people like myself would have loved to have said a few time but have allowed ourselves to be silenced in fear of the 'old timers'!

[/ QUOTE ]If i'm honest, this kind of stuff just makes me plain angry... lots of people ready to decry the 'old timers' (your words, not mine) for having in-jokes, and opinions...... well, let me be blunt.... if they didn't have opinions, and maintain in-jokes, then there would be no bloody forum for others to come along to would there, as everyone would get the bit of knowledge they need, and sod off until they need another bit at some time in the future, no other reason to hang around.... its the sense of community and comraderie that keep such a large number of people as regular contributors (which, lets face it, is a much nicer description that old timers isn't it?).... if you want nice sensible, specialist subject matter only forums, then there are plenty to choose from out there.... they are the ones that get 12 posts per annum... post your question and maybe in 6 months it might have a decent answer.....
 
Quite.

If there really was a clique of old timers, I'd agree. Tho most of the oldtimers are battling it out with different opinions, and never agreeing much anyway. Then newbies waltz in and complain they aren't given preferential treatment because of one person posting? We did used to have an oldtimers rule that newbies were allowed 10 posts before we treated them like regulars, but that went a long time ago, when the forums became too large a community
 
Well, when I bought our first boat , just a few months ago, I was surprised to see a funny little computer screen type device that shows pictures of the sea and islands and other stuff, it even has some buttoms that you can use to move around the screen, you can zoom in and zoom out too.

I am doing my DS theory course and I have a CD disc that tells me how to use this device. Luckily the DS course also has some proper paper charts too as I prefer them and they fit on the chart table in the boat.

Ok joking aside, I was in Naval Cadets years ago and all we had then was paper charts, that is how I learnt my navigation.

Modern Chart plotters are great, but I still like a simple to read piece of paper.

You can get a better "feel" for the area from a chart as opposed to constantly zoomng in and out of a screen.

I do however admit that one electronic chart covers a greater area for a much cheaper price.

It all depends on your needs. For us, we will be mainly day sailing returning to home or the occasional weekend passage at first. Our chart table will take at least A2 size. have just ordered some new charts of the area.

For me looking at a chart plotter screen is like trying to read a document on the PC at work, I much prefer to read a printed copy.

Recently there have been many posts about what electronic safety devices you need on a boat,RADAR, AIS, DSC vhf etc. Also what happens if your engine fails posts, do you Pan Pan or try and sail close to home and call for any vessels etc.

But there has not been much mention of what happens if the chart plotter cr4ps out.

Number one eye ball, a chart and a compass has worked without any need for elecrickery for thousands of years.
 
Not a reply to Morgana as such, but just some general thoughts re sextants and dinosaurs and charts.....

I cannot see commercial ships doing away with the full size chart table on the bridge in the foreseeable future - most of the ones I have been on (re survey jobs) do not have any form of chart plotter, just GPS units, and the crew take pride in their chart work.
And the few ships (usually cruise ships) I have seen that do have chart plotters (often with huge screens, interfaced with their radars) also religiously maintain fixes on paper charts, with notes of position in the paper log.
Although it is a flag state requirement, they also know that common sense dictates that it can only be sensible to maintain a back up in case anything does do wrong with the electronic systems - and a well maintained hand written log is excellent evidence when needed in a court of law if anything does go pear shaped.

I am currently swopping emails with the Bosun on the TSYT brig 'Stavros' (webpage link below) who is storming (OK, doing 5 knots today, winds have eased a bit) across the Atlantic from the Canaries to Barbados - they should be here around the end of next week probably - and he tells me that they are all practicing their sunsights every day with great enthusiasm - and getting position accuracy down to less than a mile when compared to the GPS (assuming of course that the GPS is correct.....).
They have a voyage B-log on-going at http://www.tallships.org/document.asp?cat=703&doc=7308
 
Re aircraft.... Went to AAIB site todayto see what they had to say about the 777 accident and found a report of an A320 that had a very interesting electrical incident. If it hadn't been dusk the pilot would have been banjaxed because his standby windup instruments were invisible because the lighting had gone as well as the glass cockpit. He could at least see the horizon and keep right height....
 
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Luckily the DS course also has some proper paper charts too as I prefer them and they fit on the chart table in the boat.

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Don't they have "Not to be used for navigation" printed all around the borders?
 
You'd have a job with the latest lot, bits of everywhere and nowhere... Even the names have been changed to protect the innocent! Yer now stuck trying to work out tides in UT for a position at a time in SPDST....
 
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Luckily the DS course also has some proper paper charts too as I prefer them and they fit on the chart table in the boat.

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Don't they have "Not to be used for navigation" printed all around the borders?

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Yes they do.

I was however trying to refer to their size and to the fact that using charts is still a basic requirement

Hence why later in my post I mentioned that:

" Our chart table will take at least A2 size. have just ordered some new charts of the area."


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or how about?:

"Oh.... So an 'old timer' should only come in with something which doesn't disagree with your viewpoint or offend your sensibilities then? I'm really sorry to have got it wrong being a mere 'old timer' and yourself clearly being such an established 'new poster'.... My apologies.... perhaps you would be good enough to alter the T&C's of this forum so that other 'old timers' don't make the same mistake?
I do sincerely hope that this isn't one of those annoying forum where the 'new posters' ...dominate everything with their ... strong opinions at the cost of others?

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Morgana, perhaps it's a catch 22 situation in that the 'old timers' are so 'valuable' to these forum because they make themselves so by scaring off a number of 'newbies' through their attitudes? Perhaps a sort of unconcscience protectionism?
Clearly your sort of angry and aggressive comments do not help encourage one to stick it out in the hope of ultimately experiencing some of this purported 'sense of community and comraderie'!
In the 3 years I have been on this board, I have met some really good and friendly people and made some good friends, but far outnumbering them amongst the 'old timers', are a hard core who give the impression of running a 'closed shop' to anybody who does not fully agree with them or share their opinions. Finally, I do not believe that anybody is expecting, let alone asking for, any sort of 'preferential treatment' Brendan.

Lets just hope that we are all big enough enough to fully accept that others will always have totally different views and opinions to ourselves and not feel that we have to fight and argue agreesively tooth and nail in long drawn out arguments simply because we hate to lose a point or be seen to be wrong. We can disagree politely and in a gentlemany manner.
 
I wouldn't waste my breath on this oldancienctmariner. Not worth it. Just do your own thing and enjoy your sailing.

In answer to your comments about the Clasship, it is a bit of a monster, but as it's our pemanent home and we just sail anywhere and everywhere, we did want something we could feel comfortable and secure in. I'm not sure how many clasship were built, but I have come across a total of 4 so far and all in the Med, though I am told that there are at least a dozen.
 
On a smallish boat, one with a small interior, a dedicated chart table takes a very great deal of valuable space.
On my boa, as purchased, the quarter berth was occupied by the chart table. We had better use for the berth - instantly occupied by SWMBO.
I've always used the cabin table for passage planning and for navigation with a Yeoman Sport (the small one).
Now the electronic plotter is on deck during sailing time and removed and plugged in below for planning (mainly route development).
However, we sail mainly in Swedish Skerries where pilotage is the name of the game and the plotter or chart packs must be on deck. There's just not enough time to go below to check positions. In one narrow passage near Nynashamn the depth gauge alarm (set to 1 metre below keel) goes off because we are getting too close to shore - its not that shallow.
Of course a chart table is nice to have, but I suspect fewer sailors are practicing classic navigation these days and the space can be better used in other ways.
 
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