What would you do if your in mast furling stuck.

[Nostrodamus]

I have not had this problem but in the event I was wondering what is the best way to deal with it or if it had ever happened to anyone.
If your in mast furling was stuck fully or partially out what is the best way to deal with it if all else fails.
My thoughts are to tie it to the mast but in a good blow I would think this could be difficult.
Any suggestions?

 

[jimi]

pull it all out and drop the halyard

 

[Arigatou]

Panic!

 

[Chrusty 1]

Unstuck it.

 

[prv]

Wonder how on earth in-mast furling snuck onto my boat, when I don't like it for several reasons including this one

Pete

 

[capnsensible]

pull it all out and drop the halyard

Cant do that if the sail is jammed!

Had this happen a few times with me on various boats and the following has been 100% successful.

Needs patience. Jam is generally a 'riding turn' of the sail overapping. Just work the sail in and out, pulling down on the leech being careful not to ovetension it. It may take loadsa goes but always works in the end. Helps if you can nip in and anchor somewhere.

Hope this helps.

 

[Robin]

pull it all out and drop the halyard

Then throw it in the nearest bin and organise a proper slab reefing system with a proper sail, even if that meant a new mast as well.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Prevent. Rollers don't jam if they are properly set up.

Flat Sails - if yours has gone baggy, get the sail maker to work on it.
Over-tensioned halyard puts a crease in the luff of the sail and loads the bearings. Forget your racing habits, slacken the halyard.
Foil incorrectly tensionedToo low tension, and it rubs against the inside of the mast. Too high tension and the roller bearings don't roll.

There's a good reason nearly all Med charter companies use roller reefing for their mains. You get far less sail damage, because reefing is quicker and more effective when that squall hits. Cue lots of "but I saw this tangle coming into harbour . . .". Sure, some charter companies new to the business don't know how to set up their roller systems.

Final point. Sails usually jam when being unrolled. It's very rare they jam when being rolled.

How do I know this? 15 years running a fleet of up to 100 charter boats.

 

[Elemental]

Prevent. Rollers don't jam if they are properly set up.

Flat Sails - if yours has gone baggy, get the sail maker to work on it.
Over-tensioned halyard puts a crease in the luff of the sail and loads the bearings. Forget your racing habits, slacken the halyard.
Foil incorrectly tensionedToo low tension, and it rubs against the inside of the mast. Too high tension and the roller bearings don't roll.

There's a good reason nearly all Med charter companies use roller reefing for their mains. You get far less sail damage, because reefing is quicker and more effective when that squall hits. Cue lots of "but I saw this tangle coming into harbour . . .". Sure, some charter companies new to the business don't know how to set up their roller systems.

Final point. Sails usually jam when being unrolled. It's very rare they jam when being rolled.

How do I know this? 15 years running a fleet of up to 100 charter boats.

+1
I'd add, an annual coating of Sailkote on both sides of the sail helps reduce any tendency for any folds to jam and helps get a tight roll inside the mast.

 

[Robin]

I'm sure you can at least minimise the risk of jamming and the frequency of it happening. It still doesn't make the sail efficient for sailing performance however, but for a charter fleet where the less knowledgeable are in the majority I suppose there is some justification. That said on a lightly crewed boat above say 45ft it may be the best option, but I still wouldn't like it.

 

[TQA]

From a casual onllokers point of view the BVI charter fleets seems to be returning to slab reefing on the newer boats.

As to what to do in a case I observed, the the final solution involved a masthead halyard, a bosuns chair and a bread knife.

 

[jordanbasset]

Prevent. Rollers don't jam if they are properly set up.

Flat Sails - if yours has gone baggy, get the sail maker to work on it.
Over-tensioned halyard puts a crease in the luff of the sail and loads the bearings. Forget your racing habits, slacken the halyard.
Foil incorrectly tensionedToo low tension, and it rubs against the inside of the mast. Too high tension and the roller bearings don't roll.

There's a good reason nearly all Med charter companies use roller reefing for their mains. You get far less sail damage, because reefing is quicker and more effective when that squall hits. Cue lots of "but I saw this tangle coming into harbour . . .". Sure, some charter companies new to the business don't know how to set up their roller systems.

Final point. Sails usually jam when being unrolled. It's very rare they jam when being rolled.

How do I know this? 15 years running a fleet of up to 100 charter boats.

Agree, ours jammed in our earry days of boat ownership, but only ever when we were unfurling it. We have now set it up, similar to above and have not had it jam in 2 years

 

[njsail]

I've had this happen a couple times when I was learning how to use a furling mast. A winch helps pull it out. The most common cause I've seen is when the boom isn't at the right angle to the mast so when it furls it binds up. you might not notice it when winching it in but when you try unfurling it might bind coming out the slot. This requires some additional pressure to pull it through the slot. The simple solution is adjust the topping lift and keep a little tension on the outhaul when winding it in. I absolutely love our furling mast now. infinite reefing points and keeps the boom clear when at anchor. also when trying to furl under sail make sure the sail isn't at too high and angle to the entry slot in the mast. This puts undue wear and friction on the sail so heading up into the wind a little helps it flow smoothly through the slot. I take ours down every winter to clean it and lube the sail track.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I'm sure you can at least minimise the risk of jamming and the frequency of it happening. It still doesn't make the sail efficient for sailing performance however, but for a charter fleet where the less knowledgeable are in the majority I suppose there is some justification. That said on a lightly crewed boat above say 45ft it may be the best option, but I still wouldn't like it.

I initially thought this when I bought a boat with in-mast furling. Not so sure now. The loose footed sail can be minutely adjusted to give the best flow. My previous yacht had slab reefing but a sail that was not loose footed and I could not get such a good sail shape, especially when reefed. True there is a reduced roach, but our new main has three battens on the leach and frankly there isnt much difference from the average slab reefed sail.
To return to the thread. On buying the yacht I immediately purchased a mast climbing ladder to be hoisted up the trysail track so I could cut away the sail in dire circumstances. Fortunately I have never had to use it for that purpose!
I have had the sail jam, but only on unfurling, never on furling. But when I had slab reefing occasionally there were problems too. Second reef lines wrapping themselves around the end of the boom when hauling in the first reef; tack ring coming off the hook; sail going up the wrong side of the lazyjacks; and reefing line coming undone inside the boom.
Happy to sail with either: both require care.

 

[Robin]

Reading back through the replies and even those from people who know and love the system regardless of performance loss (which there is from area lost for starters let alone shape), they are still saying it does jam and some of the solutions suggested are pretty drastic. That alone would deter me from buying such a system given the choice, IMO of course.

I recall one picture story appearing in Yachting Monthly of the Seastart man being called out to sort out a jam. I don't think he does night calls to Mid-Biscay mind.

 

[capnsensible]

Reading back through the replies and even those from people who know and love the system regardless of performance loss (which there is from area lost for starters let alone shape), they are still saying it does jam and some of the solutions suggested are pretty drastic. That alone would deter me from buying such a system given the choice, IMO of course.

I recall one picture story appearing in Yachting Monthly of the Seastart man being called out to sort out a jam. I don't think he does night calls to Mid-Biscay mind.

Please be assured that jamming is rare.

I have seen many, many boats that have made a transatlantic trip with no problem. Indeed, 4 of the crossings I have made have had this fitted as standard. I also took a boat on delivery from Lanzarote to the UK with a bolt on version with no problem.

Like anything on a yacht, its good planning to have ideas about the 'what ifs' I reckon.

Had far more problems with flippin engines that were invented ages ago!

 

[little_roundtop]

The few jammed up in-mast mainsails that I have seen have all been with old sails. Soft, floppy, worn-out sails jam up quite easily on in-mast systems. As has been said, it's usually a riding turn when furling which doesn't become apparent until you want the sail out again. Old, baggy sails are prone to riding turns, especially if furled in gusty conditions.

One other point I'd make is that if you ever get any damage to an in-mast furling main do not furl it away, drop it and bag it instead. I've seen two hopelessly jammed in-mast mainsails that were furled after being torn. The furling made the tears worse and caused riding turns on just the torn part of the sail. Both needed a rigger with a sharp knife and an hour or so of work aloft to cut the sail away. Needless to say both sails were scrap afterwards.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Thank you for your replies.
As I said, mine has not jammed even though I have vertical battens as well but to know some of the options and problems always helps.
I doubt Robin would ever set sail on a boat with furling anything unless it was to rip it down and throw it away. At least this post might have shown him the best way to do that.
I have had mentioned to me before a spray that can be applied to sails to help them furl (Sailkote or something although it did seem expensive though) and spraying the entry slit with a silicone spray. I have tried neither of these so I cannot comment.
What I can say that for rough weather or short handed sailing it is a wonderful invention. It can be reefed or brought in alone from the safety of the cockpit in very quick time.
There will always be those who argue that it destroys sail shape which well it might but if the crew has been injured trying to reef in bad weather handing onto the boom trying to get the reef in sail shape make little difference.
For me safety comes above everything else so I shall just plod round in my own happy and contented world.

 

[Robin]

Thank you for your replies.
As I said, mine has not jammed even though I have vertical battens as well but to know some of the options and problems always helps.
I doubt Robin would ever set sail on a boat with furling anything unless it was to rip it down and throw it away. At least this post might have shown him the best way to do that.
I have had mentioned to me before a spray that can be applied to sails to help them furl (Sailkote or something although it did seem expensive though) and spraying the entry slit with a silicone spray. I have tried neither of these so I cannot comment.
What I can say that for rough weather or short handed sailing it is a wonderful invention. It can be reefed or brought in alone from the safety of the cockpit in very quick time.
There will always be those who argue that it destroys sail shape which well it might but if the crew has been injured trying to reef in bad weather handing onto the boom trying to get the reef in sail shape make little difference.
For me safety comes above everything else so I shall just plod round in my own happy and contented world.

Not strictly true because I'm a fan of good roller reefing headsail systems, plus I would concede that there comes a size of boat/mainsail where with a small crew (as in a husband and wife crew like us) it is the only easy solution.

It is perfectly possible on say up to 45ft boats to have a slab reefing mainsail system that is easy to use single handed and entirely achieved from the safety of the cockpit, without the risk of jamming and without suffering any performance losses. We had all three reefs, on a 41ft boat with a large fully battened mainsail, led back to be handled from the safety of the cockpit and either of us card carrying bus pass holders could put in or shake out a reef on our own, in the dark.

Performance loss is not just from a poor sail shape, it is from the loss of area from reduced hoist (luff length) and a reduced foot length as well as area lost in the roach, such that for light winds the in-mast boat would be effectively sailing with the first reef in over the same boat with a standard rig. That translates to poorer light wind performance and more use of engine power to maintain an acceptable passage speed. If that is acceptable as a compromise then fine, but tales of in-mast being every bit as good performance wise are just wishful thinking.

Each to their own as always. In our case we no longer need to reef anything other than the Stars and Stripes on the stern of our new boat so I'm just putting the alternative view.

 

[westernman]

The few jammed up in-mast mainsails that I have seen have all been with old sails. Soft, floppy, worn-out sails jam up quite easily on in-mast systems. As has been said, it's usually a riding turn when furling which doesn't become apparent until you want the sail out again. Old, baggy sails are prone to riding turns, especially if furled in gusty conditions.

A neighbour in my home port had his brand new mainsail well and truly jammed in the in mast furling system. He was still unjamming it when we left.....