What type of stainless steel anchor chain in warmer waters

T

tollywho

New Member
Joined
13 Apr 2016
Messages
5
Location
Uddevalla, Sweden
Visit site
I have a problem deciding what anchor chain to use…does anyone have any idea?

I want 200ft of chain (and then rope) to mostly only having to use chain when anchoring.

The galvanized type will more easily give trouble in the chain locker, so I’m into stainless steel
type…and here’s the problem that perhaps anyone out there has any experience or knowledge about:

Buying a SS chain in Sweden means buying a 1.440 – AISI 316L alloy chain…which is perfectly
suitable for Swedish conditions, with water temperature not exceeding 25 degrees Celsius,
which it never is in Sweden.

For warmer waters, 25+ up to 35 degrees C, the 1.4462 – AISI 318LN alloy is recommended, since
it has a better rust resistance in warmer waters. Since our plan is to sail in warmer waters, this one
would be the logical choice…except that the price is 2.5 times higher than the other SS chain...which
itself is quite expensive.

So, what I’m wondering about is how the cheaper SS chain actually reacts in warmer waters?
Anchoring for long time is not good for any chain, but will the cheaper chain do alright also, or will
I get in to problems that I don’t want?
Do you have any experience or knowledge in this?

All input appreciated.

Rolf
 
As you have found Duplex chain is extorionate which is why finding any user experience, other than on the German chain maker's website, is difficult. You not only need to think of the chain but also the connectors - bow shackles are like hens teeth and you certainly will not find compatible swivels.

I have to wonder why your aversion to galvanised chain. Virtually everyone uses it and though towering can be an issue most people manage to live with it. Instead of going the Duplex stainless route have you considered G70 and downsizing (10mm down to 8mm, say) - it might overcome your issues with the chain locker and will be not much difference in price to buying the bigger sized G30/G40. You will need a new gypsy, for the smaller sized chain.

Jonathan
 
I'm no expert on ground tackle so I went for 80 M galvanised chain and didn't consider Stainless Steel.

When I need help I rely on the experts on these forums(!) and experts like David Pascoe (Marine surveyor/author) and Alan Lucas (experienced yachtsman/author.

Here is what Alan Lucas says about S/S chain:

"As for washing off, there are ways to ease the burden: For example, if your chain is stainless steel, its smooth surface will accumulate less mud in a given period of time than galvanised chain."
"That’s the good news: the bad news is that stainless chain costs four times that of galvanised steel and it work-hardens under changing stress levels. Furthermore, it is very susceptible to electrolysis if left too long in the water. (I have seen stainless chain links lose their welds completely [Diagram 3] after a few months underwater)."

Read more at http://www.mysailing.com.au/news/managing-your-anchor#d3aAyhbGxYtKSVdH.99
 
Thread: An interesting S/S anchor chain saga (YBW 12th Sept 2010)

"Here is an interesting article in the September issue of the Caribbean Compass about one sailor's experience with an all 316 (allegedly) stainless steel anchoring arrangement - anchor, swivel and chain.
http://issuu.com/caribbean-compass/d...0/2?mode=embed

Once you bring up the on-line edition, click on page 41, and then click again to enlarge the script.

He was talked into buying this new kit 4 years ago in the Caribbean, and it all seemed wonderful.
But then he relates how the chain cable recently broke in a squall one morning, fortunately with the crew on board and up in the cockpit. They re-anchored with the kedge, and went diving to look for the anchor, and found it ok, even finding the broken chain link, of which there is a photo.

Vyv, if you are reading this, what are your thoughts please?

Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ing-S-S-anchor-chain-saga#aIWdQ0FXcPZLDtAo.99
 
If you want the most reliable stainless anchor chain then be prepared to pay a lot. This is the best of which I know and I am not aware of anyone else making to this quality. The chain is made to match European windlass gypsies and is, apparently, suitable for use in warmer seawater.

http://www.cromox.eu/en/nautic/

From memory they only make 'D' shackles and a source of bow shackles would be Peteresen (in the UK).

I did think of testing the chain and shackles - it simply cost too much to buy and destroy and the market is so small

The alternative, buying uncertificated 316 stainless chain, is asking for trouble.

Jonathan
 
Spent most of my working life in the stainless steel manufacturing industry ( when we had one) - technical but not a metallurgist.

No doubt if you were the MoD with bottomless pockets you could use one of the exotic stainless steel qualities but as an ordinary yottie you arent that rich. You could use 316 and I certainly wouldnt worry about work hardening, but stainless is stainless because of the thin surface coating it forms and this rubs away where link meets link and corrosion starts. Like any chemical process, corrosion is faster if warmer. Would not matter for someone anchoring as most of us do but might well be an issue for someone doing the sell up sail away bit and anchoring every day for a year or two. I certainly wouldnt want to be anchored in Pago Pago wondering about my stainless chain.

Personally I would go for galvanised chain and recognise that its a consumeable. So when it gets rusty, throw it and replace with new. I certainly wouldnt go for an exotic stainless
 
We thought about stainless when we bought our new anchor. Eventually after reading Vyv Cox's excellent discourse on the matter, see http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx... we chose to go up in quality to G70 and reduce our bow weight by getting 8 MM chain.

We are setting off for a circumnavigation and have 100 meters of chain plus 60 meters of rode on the main anchor.

Fair winds
 
Birdseye said..
"...Personally I would go for galvanised chain and recognise that its a consumeable. So when it gets rusty, throw it and replace with new. I certainly wouldnt go for an exotic stainless ..."

I reckon that the coating is a consumable, and when its worn out, get a new coating. Why replace the steel if that's not yet worn out?
 
In Chaguaramas ,Trindad a yacht anchored out on stainleess chain suffered crevice corrosion and it broke, I would stick with with galvanised chain I'v never heard of that getting crevice corrosion. The water temperature in the southern Caribbean is 25 to26 degrees C and when diving it was the same at 60 feet. It's three or four degrees cooler in the Northern Caribbean as is air the temperature
 
I still have some thoughts about the galvanized, and then preferably an 8mm G70 chain, since I believe that one will give less problem with towering and still have the same strength as my prsent 10mm...but the problem is that my Maxwell Liberty RC2500 then will need a new chainweel from a RC1700 (8mm)...and the only one I found anywhere was like $700 plus shipping from US to Sweden. Could I find the chainwheel cheaper somewhere else I would consider that.

About the galvanized chain, one thing I have no knowkedge of is how long time a galvanized chain likely will last in warmer waters, when frequently anchoring.
 
tollywho said:
About the galvanized chain, one thing I have no knowkedge of is how long time a galvanized chain likely will last in warmer waters, when frequently anchoring.
Click to expand...

Probably very variable. However galvanised chain is used almost universally by cruising sailors in all kinds of waters including tropics and stainless almost never. So, go with the flow and buy the best chain you can obtain.
 
If you follow the G70 route you have limited choice of supply Maggi, whose galvanising is not the best but is very strong chain, or Peerless. Peerless stock G40 and G70 in metric sizes in a central warehouse in Germany. One member has reported on achieving a life of 4 years with Maggi G70 when at anchor every day. G70 is a one use only chain, it cannot be re-gal - or it can but you would end up with something closer to G30 or G40.

Gypsies are very expensive but you might find one in a second hand boat part shop or marina work yard. You would be surprised at how many windlass are thrown out, because of issues with motor and/or gearbox. I suspect that buying a new gypsy and G70 will be cheaper than buying stainless (and you will have the weight saving from the G70)

Jonathan
 
Water temperature where I sail in the Aegean is typically about 20C early in the season, rising to about 28 C later. We anchor a great deal, almost half the year some seasons. My original galvanising lasted three years. I then had the chain regalvanised and it shows no sign of rusting or significant deterioration after five years.

However, we see quite a lot of boats with stainless chain that appears to be many years old. I doubt very much that 316L would fail rapidly in warm waters.
 
vyv_cox said:
Water temperature where I sail in the Aegean is typically about 20C early in the season, rising to about 28 C later. We anchor a great deal, almost half the year some seasons. My original galvanising lasted three years. I then had the chain regalvanised and it shows no sign of rusting or significant deterioration after five years.

However, we see quite a lot of boats with stainless chain that appears to be many years old. I doubt very much that 316L would fail rapidly in warm waters.
Click to expand...

If I interpret correctly then the galvanising only lasted 18 months of continuous, or nightly, use, almost 6 months (sometimes) for 3 years.

I might have thought if most people thought, or knew, their chain would only 'last' 500 days at anchor they would be appalled.

It certainly makes a strong case for stainless and weakens the case for G70 (which would be a really expensive option at that wear rate).

The same chain regalvanised looks much more sensible at, currently, 2.5 years or 800 days and still counting.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
If I interpret correctly then the galvanising only lasted 18 months of continuous, or nightly, use, almost 6 months (sometimes) for 3 years.

I might have thought if most people thought, or knew, their chain would only 'last' 500 days at anchor they would be appalled.

It certainly makes a strong case for stainless and weakens the case for G70 (which would be a really expensive option at that wear rate).

The same chain regalvanised looks much more sensible at, currently, 2.5 years or 800 days and still counting.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Vyv said 5 yrs so far with no sign of deterioration.
 
Neeves said:
Correct, 5 years, 6 months, max, a year - about 800 days - and still counting. This is for the regalvanised product that Vyv had to arrange himself, not the original. Its the original that's questionable.


Jonathan
Click to expand...

I agree, pretty poor performance. I end-for-ended the original chain after one year and regalvanised it after three. Pics and story here https://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Regalvanising.aspx As it says, I bought it in Corsica and have always suspected that it was made by Maggi but don't know for certain.

The regalvanised version still looks good. It has blackened, as they usually do, but no real deterioration.
 
What I really fail to understand is why the chain manufacturer often produces a gal coating that is not as good as the re-gal coating done later. People who re-gal commonly state the new gal is better than the original (though this might be subjective initially and longer term comments, except for Vyv's above, are less common). But chain makers do it, or their subcontract galvanisers do it, all the time - why can they not get a coating that last longer? Its obviously possible, its really old technology - what's the problem?

It would almost be better to buy a G30 short link chain, raw (called black chain in Oz - it has a black painted coating), even better no coating at all, cut out the middle man and have it coated yourself.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
It would almost be better to buy a G30 short link chain, raw (called black chain in Oz - it has a black painted coating), even better no coating at all, cut out the middle man and have it coated yourself.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

That's a good idea that had not occurred to me.

I think, although I stand to be corrected, that some manufacturers centrifuge their chain to remove most of the zinc, whereas I believe (it's secret, so they won't tell me) that BE Wedge vibrate theirs, which removes less zinc.
 
Vyv,

My understanding is that zinc is soft and leaving it as a thick layer on the 'outside' of the gal makes it look 'nice' but does nothing for longevity of an anchor chain. As its has no benefit other than cosmetic the practise is to reduce the thickness. Having said that much galvanised product sees no abrasion at all - so I do not see that it would make any difference to, say, a steel bridge. What we want are thick layers of the ZnFe alloys that form during the process, that are harder than the underlying steel. The formation of these underlayers depends on steel chemistry - and I'd guess time in the bath.

It does appear to be a very secretive process.

The fascinating aspect is that galvanisers who have no interest in chain, per se, can apparently produce a better coating that the chain makers (or the chainmaker's subcontractors).

When we buy chain we look at quality, the 'G' number. But its the galvanising that determines the life of the product we have bought. As mentioned on another thread chains do not break but they do wear out and there are more threads on YBW on galvanising and none on people complaining their chain broke.

Most chain, possibly accepting leisure anchor chain, appears to be a commodity (and prices might be low becuase of strong competition from China who now make G30, 40, 70, 80, 100 and 120). its a cut throat business. I think raw, certificated G30, or G40 short link (whichever is most commonly used in 'industry', transport, fishing, lifting) might be surprisingly cheap. If you look at windlass gypsy spreadsheets many are surprisingly forgiving and there are other European standards, EN818-2 being the one I found (for 6mm), that are so similar to our standards - as make no difference and increase the options.

Jonathan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top