CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-Known Member
The scissor type will do all rivets but you need a steady hand, and to be careful as it tends to snap off fingers too.
What type of rivet gun
- Thread starter tudorsailor
- Start date
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
You should use Monel pop rivets NOT aluminium as they have a steel pin which will rust. You'll need to use a lazy tong or lever type riveter and should be ok for up to 5mm diameter rivets. Available from most chandlers, get a selection for various thicknesses.
Yngmar
Well-Known Member
I've done my mast steps with this cheap lazy tong riveter, nearly 100 of them, each dipped into Duralac (that's the other important bit - although silicon grease will do in a pinch). It did the job okay, except the steps had slightly recessed holes and so I had to use a spacer, which meant there was very little wiggle room for the riveter gripping the rivet. Had I tried this with the small pop riveter type, I probably would've broken the thing, or worse, my hand. Seascrew stocks monel rivets, although I got mine with the steps from Calibra marine.
For drilling the holes I got a "Cobalt Pro" drill bit from Toolstation, who sell them individually. Also used some cutting oil from there (Tectane I think). Bring plenty of rags to wipe off excess oil and extremely sticky Duralac (which did not come out of my trousers in many laundries since, which I find both annoying and reassuring).
For drilling the holes I got a "Cobalt Pro" drill bit from Toolstation, who sell them individually. Also used some cutting oil from there (Tectane I think). Bring plenty of rags to wipe off excess oil and extremely sticky Duralac (which did not come out of my trousers in many laundries since, which I find both annoying and reassuring).
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
For rivnuts I don't bother with a special tool. All I do is screw a nut onto a long bolt. then put a couple of washers on, followed by the rivnut. I push the rivnut into place with a ring spanner on the nut to hold it still and the washers pressed against the head of the rivnut. After that its just a case of turning the nut to expand the rivnut in place whilst holding the bolt still with molegrips. You can tell by feel when the rivnut is sufficiently expanded, and you can do any size rivnuts, even stainless ones, this way.
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Norman_E
Well-Known Member
I always knock the pins out. Some monel rivets I bought had steel pins, unless monel sticks to a magnet.
David2452
Well-Known Member
I know some people enjoy a hard life, but if I were doing that many at one go I would hire one of these, for the sake of a tenner or so a day
http://www.hss.com/hire/p/cordless-riveter
doug748
Well-Known Member
Good tip Norman E. Not that I have ever used a Rivnut , but if I do, I will do that.
For the OP, for WI Worth.
I agree with the others for emergency use the long handled jobs are the things to have. You need something that will pull a 1/4in monel rivet, as a lot of mast fittings are daftly over strength for manufacturing convenience. Beware - I got a pair off tinternet that would not open far enough to accept the larger mandrels. In extremis I had to grind them down to fit but the thing had to go back in the end, so, even if it says 1/4 in on the box - Check It Works.
Lazy tongs are good for speed but you need to be well braced to use them, not always easy on a boat. Eclipse/Spiralux are a well respected set and the newer ones (Chinese) will do 1/4in. The older ones which you may still find (Sheffield made) have max 3/16th jaws.
Get a mix of rivets, even alloy can be useful though they are only 2/3rd the strength of monel they have their uses being quick and easy to set.
PS
Don't fall into a trough of despond if you find your rivets have plain steel mandrels, that is all I have ever found in my local chandlers.
For the OP, for WI Worth.
I agree with the others for emergency use the long handled jobs are the things to have. You need something that will pull a 1/4in monel rivet, as a lot of mast fittings are daftly over strength for manufacturing convenience. Beware - I got a pair off tinternet that would not open far enough to accept the larger mandrels. In extremis I had to grind them down to fit but the thing had to go back in the end, so, even if it says 1/4 in on the box - Check It Works.
Lazy tongs are good for speed but you need to be well braced to use them, not always easy on a boat. Eclipse/Spiralux are a well respected set and the newer ones (Chinese) will do 1/4in. The older ones which you may still find (Sheffield made) have max 3/16th jaws.
Get a mix of rivets, even alloy can be useful though they are only 2/3rd the strength of monel they have their uses being quick and easy to set.
PS
Don't fall into a trough of despond if you find your rivets have plain steel mandrels, that is all I have ever found in my local chandlers.
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VicS
Well-Known Member
What "alloy" are you referring to when you say, "even alloy can be useful though they are only 2/3rd the strength of monel"
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?447551-What-type-of-rivet-gun#3KMOIay3jJfd556D.99
The Monels are alloys of nickel and copper with small percentages of other elements.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Alumininiumum.
With c5% magnesium.
With c5% magnesium.
Boo2
Well-Known Member
So where can you get monel rivets with either monel pins or else pins that come out completely (rather than breaking) when pulled does anyone know ?
Boo2
VicS
Well-Known Member
I dont know if you can get them with Monel mandrels but they are available with stainless steel mandrels.
Dont you just punch the the knob end of the mandrel out with a pin punch or an old mandrel.
merlin3688
Well-Known Member
We buy from this company.
South Essex Fasteners, you can find them on eBay. http://www.southessexfasteners.com/
The rivet mandrel does break and it can be knocked in with the mandrel of another rivet, Sailspar used to use white nylon plugs to seal them (They may still). As said before in my opinion Monel is the only rivet to use on alloy masts and booms.
South Essex Fasteners, you can find them on eBay. http://www.southessexfasteners.com/
The rivet mandrel does break and it can be knocked in with the mandrel of another rivet, Sailspar used to use white nylon plugs to seal them (They may still). As said before in my opinion Monel is the only rivet to use on alloy masts and booms.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
It's a relief to find a group discussing rivets and their ways. I know this isn't a fresh thread but I reckon you gents know the problems.
I struggled with a £10 hand riveter for a while before realising that monel rivets are too hard to squish with short handles.
I bought a lazy-tong, but never got to grips with how it's meant to work. At around that time, a rather ugly standard lamp fell over at home, and I used the interlocking tubular brass segments of the stand, as extensions for the original hand-riveter. That actually worked rather well until a fortnight ago, when the whole arm snapped off the riveter, while trying to set a 4.8mm monel rivet.
So it's back to the lazy tong, but it just doesn't grip the mandrel for long enough to deform the rivet. I read online that continuous adjustment of the two-inch top section and locking nut is necessary (not just the top piece, selectable for different rivet sizes)...
...but nowhere online is it clear what that 'adjustment' is, nor what it is meant to achieve. It's a pity no clear unambiguous plan/user guide has been issued - I've had it in pieces, carefully reassembled it and I still don't know, so I'm hopeful someone here can advise.
The mandril (still fixed in the undeformed rivet) comes out looking lightly chewed. How do I make the tong grip the mandril harder?
I struggled with a £10 hand riveter for a while before realising that monel rivets are too hard to squish with short handles.
I bought a lazy-tong, but never got to grips with how it's meant to work. At around that time, a rather ugly standard lamp fell over at home, and I used the interlocking tubular brass segments of the stand, as extensions for the original hand-riveter. That actually worked rather well until a fortnight ago, when the whole arm snapped off the riveter, while trying to set a 4.8mm monel rivet.
So it's back to the lazy tong, but it just doesn't grip the mandrel for long enough to deform the rivet. I read online that continuous adjustment of the two-inch top section and locking nut is necessary (not just the top piece, selectable for different rivet sizes)...
...but nowhere online is it clear what that 'adjustment' is, nor what it is meant to achieve. It's a pity no clear unambiguous plan/user guide has been issued - I've had it in pieces, carefully reassembled it and I still don't know, so I'm hopeful someone here can advise.
The mandril (still fixed in the undeformed rivet) comes out looking lightly chewed. How do I make the tong grip the mandril harder?
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
But they usually have steel mandrels which WILL rust on a boat as a portion is always left inside.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
The pin doesn't contribute to the strength of the fixing even if it rusts.
tudorsailor
Well-Known Member
Just resurrecting this thread to ask if this rivet gun in man enough to cope with 6mm monel rivets?
https://www.toolstoday.co.uk/faithfull-heavy-duty-long-arm-riveter
And a question.. How do you remove a rivet should the need arise? Drill it out?
TudorSailor
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is the precise model that I have. I bought it primarily to fit folding mast steps, with 1/4" monel rivets to my main mast. No problem.
To remove unwanted rivets, drill off enough so that the remainder can be punched through.,
tudorsailor
Well-Known Member
Thats good to know.
What length of 6mm rivets did you buy?
Do you have a favourite retailer for monel rivets?
Thanks
TS