What totally useless item do you have on the boat besides yourself?

[john_morris_uk]

Mine tells me plenty about what's going to happen.

Agreed. I meant to say the same when I read that post!

 

[GrahamM376]

Just because the electronics allow one to do something doesn't make it sensible?

I agree that planning to do it that way would not be very sensible but, when necessary, I have done it. Unfortunately I can't control the weather at the end of a passage.

 

[LadyInBed]

It took me a fair time to think of something but just realised that I carry a spinaker which I have never in13 years flown and never likely to as I mainly sail alone and use twin headsails.
Just a thought, can a spinaker be recut into a cruising chute?

 

[john_morris_uk]

I agree that planning to do it that way would not be very sensible but, when necessary, I have done it. Unfortunately I can't control the weather at the end of a passage.

There was a time when sailors would have diverted to another destination or stood off and waited for better visibility or where feasible and safe would have considered anchoring in deeper water under those circumstances. However it seems we are now down to discussing exceptional situations rather than normal good practice? This all started with suggesting that the compass was one of the most useless items on board and on that topic I still strongly beg to differ.

As I said before, we all cut our own wakes which is just another way of me trying to say 'each to their own'.

 

[Nostrodamus]

There was a time when sailors would have diverted to another destination or stood off and waited for better visibility or where feasible and safe would have considered anchoring in deeper water under those circumstances. However it seems we are now down to discussing exceptional situations rather than normal good practice? This all started with suggesting that the compass was one of the most useless items on board and on that topic I still strongly beg to differ.

As I said before, we all cut our own wakes which is just another way of me trying to say 'each to their own'.

I would suggest that at one time a compass was essential to any boat sailing but has times and equipment have evolved it has now become a back up rather than a primary means of navigation unless you are teaching or running a course.
Yes we all still need one but in most circumstances it is rarely used.
I would probably think far, far less than 50% of boats have had their compasses set up or adjusted in the last few years and you will be lucky to find or remember where you put your deviation card.
The best aide to navigation has and will always be the human eye and brain... that is unless you have my brain

 

[Blueboatman]

Hmm, what an interesting thread, ( really ) .

Honest habitual sailing technique is changing as rapidly as the adoption of universal meedja and Internet connection it seems...

Arguably the only electronics you need are a joystick for the autopilot when berthing, and a smartphone with £20 quids worth of weather, chart , compass, AIS apps.

Should save a few euros on the maintenance..


Now, smugly I would like to say that the spares and the liferaft are, well, less useful than a credit card but I chust dunno..

Aha. If you go sailing then a marina berth is pretty useless eh? Except those ones where you take ' reciprocal nights' along with you, hmm bugga.

I have a vacuvin wine saver, that's pretty superfluous . There , sorted.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I would suggest that at one time a compass was essential to any boat sailing but has times and equipment have evolved it has now become a back up rather than a primary means of navigation unless you are teaching or running a course.
Yes we all still need one but in most circumstances it is rarely used.
I would probably think far, far less than 50% of boats have had their compasses set up or adjusted in the last few years and you will be lucky to find or remember where you put your deviation card.
The best aide to navigation has and will always be the human eye and brain... that is unless you have my brain

If you really believe that is true, perhaps we should have a cruise in company on identical boats. The reason I say this is that the plotter with its GPS will tell you where you are and where you are going and which direction your destination is, but unless you are running some fancy realtime software with tides and tidal stream predictions, if your track takes you over more than one tide you need to do some traditional calculations to arrive at a course to steer. And although some people will protest that their fancy software will do the correct calculations, 99% of the boaters I come across just follow the track which is easily shown to be a slower way to get there.

People can convince themselves they don't need a compass and they can get away without using a compass but they are not passage planning or steering very efficiently some of the time.

The plotter can be very good at doing simple COG/SOG and BTW calculations, but it doesn't always realise that allowing your boat to go several miles 'off track' might be quicker in the long run.

 

[Nostrodamus]

If you really believe that is true, perhaps we should have a cruise in company on identical boats. The reason I say this is that the plotter with its GPS will tell you where you are and where you are going and which direction your destination is, but unless you are running some fancy realtime software with tides and tidal stream predictions, if your track takes you over more than one tide you need to do some traditional calculations to arrive at a course to steer. And although some people will protest that their fancy software will do the correct calculations, 99% of the boaters I come across just follow the track which is easily shown to be a slower way to get there.

People can convince themselves they don't need a compass and they can get away without using a compass but they are not passage planning or steering very efficiently some of the time.

The plotter can be very good at doing simple COG/SOG and BTW calculations, but it doesn't always realise that allowing your boat to go several miles 'off track' might be quicker in the long run.

John, as I say, we are cruisers not racers and our ETA anywhere will be within several hours. We do not rush, often stop for lunch and don't have to work out a course to the nth degree. I have checked for obstacles before setting of so the rest of the time is spent enjoying the journey.

It was slightly different in Britanny and Atlantic but not much.
As I say eyesight is the primary navigation tool as you were forever avoiding pots, nets and fishing boats. You would be forever doing new calculations if you were only using a compass.

 

[john_morris_uk]

John, as I say, we are cruisers not racers and our ETA anywhere will be within several hours. We do not rush, often stop for lunch and don't have to work out a course to the nth degree. I have checked for obstacles before setting of so the rest of the time is spent enjoying the journey.

It was slightly different in Britanny and Atlantic but not much.
As I say eyesight is the primary navigation tool as you were forever avoiding pots, nets and fishing boats. You would be forever doing new calculations if you were only using a compass.

We will have to agree to differ. We don't race any more and I certainly don't do new calculations all the time, but if you cross the channel from Plymouth to L'Aberach etc over two or three tides the difference in your passage time between doing some simple calculations and just following the track on the plotter might be over an hour in your passage time. That's time spent at anchor with your feet up with a glass of something and certainly not to be sniffed at. Of course you can cruise in any style you like, but I am concerned that there are more and more sailors coming to the sport who don't understand the points I am making and rely on the toys to the point that they consider the compass to be superfluous. If people start believing that it would be a disaster waiting to happen. Sailing for personal pleasure in the UK has been unregulated for years because sailors have been sensible and not done stupid things on the whole. When I read that people have started to think that their compass is superfluous I get really worried for all the reasons I have already explained.

 

[Dave-Shafa]

Bloody wee black bitch - Sukie

 

[Nostrodamus]

We will have to agree to differ. We don't race any more and I certainly don't do new calculations all the time, but if you cross the channel from Plymouth to L'Aberach etc over two or three tides the difference in your passage time between doing some simple calculations and just following the track on the plotter might be over an hour in your passage time. That's time spent at anchor with your feet up with a glass of something and certainly not to be sniffed at. Of course you can cruise in any style you like, but I am concerned that there are more and more sailors coming to the sport who don't understand the points I am making and rely on the toys to the point that they consider the compass to be superfluous. If people start believing that it would be a disaster waiting to happen. Sailing for personal pleasure in the UK has been unregulated for years because sailors have been sensible and not done stupid things on the whole. When I read that people have started to think that their compass is superfluous I get really worried for all the reasons I have already explained.

Point taken John.
I began sailing before GPS and chart plotters and spent half my sailing life working out the best course. It may be because we are now sailing in the sun but we are as happy sailing at 3 knots and enjoying it as we are getting there an hour earlier just to put your feet up. Of course there is the wind or lack of it to take into account and we will follow it well offshore rather than put the engine on if we can. The compass is not that much use on those occasions as we can only sail the best course we can.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would suggest that at one time a compass was essential to any boat sailing but has times and equipment have evolved it has now become a back up rather than a primary means of navigation unless you are teaching or running a course.

Is that because "everyone" has autopilots these days? I'd say that the compass is the only instrument on board I use more than the echosounder - but then I steer by hand or occasionally with an ancient Navico standalone tiller pilot.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Is that because "everyone" has autopilots these days? I'd say that the compass is the only instrument on board I use more than the echosounder - but then I steer by hand or occasionally with an ancient Navico standalone tiller pilot.

What is hand steering. Do people really do that any more?
John..that was a joke... really.

 

[Blueboatman]

Is that because "everyone" has autopilots these days? I'd say that the compass is the only instrument on board I use more than the echosounder - but then I steer by hand or occasionally with an ancient Navico standalone tiller pilot.

+1.
Steering by hand and getting the best out of the boat, playing the windshifts and tacking up the compass angles to a destination.

Utterly pointless of course.

TBH even though most boats can be pursuaded to steer themselves..... Just the fun of 'one eye on the compass, one on the telltales and a hand on the helm' ..

Pah, its all so retro!

 

[Nostrodamus]

These made me chuckle (getting back to the thread)

Genuine classified ads in U.K. Newspapers:
FREE YORKSHIRE TERRIER..

8 years old,

Hateful little *******.

Bites!



FREE PUPPIES

1/2 Cocker Spaniel, 1/2 sneaky neighbour’s dog.



FREE PUPPIES.

Mother is a Kennel Club registered German Shepherd.

Father is a Super Dog, able to leap tall fences in a single bound.



WEDDING DRESS FOR SALE .

Worn once by mistake.

Call Stephanie.



And the WINNER is


FOR SALE BY OWNER.

Complete set of Encyclopaedia Britannica, 45 volumes.

Excellent condition, £200 or best offer. No longer needed, got married, wife knows everything.



Statement of the Century

Thought from the Greatest Living Scottish Thinker–Billy Connolly. “If women are so bloody perfect at multitasking, How come they can’t have a headache and sex at the same time?”

 

[Nostrodamus]

+1.
Steering by hand and getting the best out of the boat, playing the windshifts and tacking up the compass angles to a destination.
Utterly pointless of course.

( tbh even tho most boats can be pursuaded to steer themselves. Just the fun of one eye on the compass, one on the telltales and a hand on the helm... Pah, its all so retro!

I do often have competitions with my auto pilot when I set it to wind mode.
It is pretty good and at the moment I am winning but only just. I pinch the wind far too much.
On the whole it steers a pretty good course by the wind but just bleeps too much when there is a windshift.

 

[flaming]

We will have to agree to differ. We don't race any more and I certainly don't do new calculations all the time, but if you cross the channel from Plymouth to L'Aberach etc over two or three tides the difference in your passage time between doing some simple calculations and just following the track on the plotter might be over an hour in your passage time. That's time spent at anchor with your feet up with a glass of something and certainly not to be sniffed at. Of course you can cruise in any style you like, but I am concerned that there are more and more sailors coming to the sport who don't understand the points I am making and rely on the toys to the point that they consider the compass to be superfluous. If people start believing that it would be a disaster waiting to happen. Sailing for personal pleasure in the UK has been unregulated for years because sailors have been sensible and not done stupid things on the whole. When I read that people have started to think that their compass is superfluous I get really worried for all the reasons I have already explained.

For what it's worth I'm with you 100%.

As I read this thread I assumed the first reference to the compass was an attempt at ironic humour.

I'm the furthest thing possible from a technophobe, and I absolutely love what modern sailing electronics can do. I well remember a spring series race started in perhaps 200m vis, probably less. That we weren't struggling to find the mark, but hit the layline just as normal was a very, very impressive demonstration of just what is now possible. And most of my cruising is done with a chartplotter at the helm with radar overlay and an all singing all dancing linked autohelm. But I would never dream of pushing "track" on the autohelm without first glancing at the compass to check that it seems right.

Like John, the idea that there are a considerable number of sailors out there who regard the compass as unnecessary gives me the shivers.

 

[Bru]

... but if you cross the channel from Plymouth to L'Aberach etc ....

Isn't that the crux of the matter though? Isn't it only when making a passage cross tide that there's a significant difference in passage time between steering to a CoG or steering to a CTS?

If you're sailing up and down the coast and in and out (and hopefully around!) the sandbanks staying off the putty is surely more important than any very minor gain time wise

Or am I missing something?

 

[Nostrodamus]

For what it's worth I'm with you 100%.

As I read this thread I assumed the first reference to the compass was an attempt at ironic humour.

I'm the furthest thing possible from a technophobe, and I absolutely love what modern sailing electronics can do. I well remember a spring series race started in perhaps 200m vis, probably less. That we weren't struggling to find the mark, but hit the layline just as normal was a very, very impressive demonstration of just what is now possible. And most of my cruising is done with a chartplotter at the helm with radar overlay and an all singing all dancing linked autohelm. But I would never dream of pushing "track" on the autohelm without first glancing at the compass to check that it seems right.

Like John, the idea that there are a considerable number of sailors out there who regard the compass as unnecessary gives me the shivers.

That sounds to me that the compass is a back up rather than a primary means of navigation.
I think the compass comment was made with a tongue in cheek attitude but it is used less and less by the majority of sailors

 

[Blueboatman]

I do often have competitions with my auto pilot when I set it to wind mode.
It is pretty good and at the moment I am winning but only just. I pinch the wind far too much.
On the whole it steers a pretty good course by the wind but just bleeps too much when there is a windshift.

Sounds like you guys are really getting into this sailing cruising along thing! Good fun innit