What speed for an overnight passage?

[MAFWeiss]

I am just starting to plan for the maiden voyage of our Prestige 680 back to Salerno from Sete towards the end of May. Since we will have the benefit of Prestige's very able and experienced professional skipper - and someone who is intimate with the boat - for this trip, I would like to do the first leg from Sete to the Corsican coast by night. This is not something we have ever attempted before, since my wife's eye sight at night is not good and she has hitherto been petrified of even a short trip.

By my calculation, it is around 235nms to Ajaccio, so my question is; assuming calm seas and favourable weather, what would be a comfortable and safe speed for night sailing, so I can guesstimate a departure and arrival time?

 

[jfm]

It's a bit "depends". If heavy rain preceding week (= branches and debris from rivers till you are well clear of coast) or no moon then I might do that at 9 knots (and why rush). If close to full moon you will have the same visibility almost as day sailing and I have often done that trip at 20 knots.

I have no idea why you are aiming for Ajaccio though. There are much nicer places and the bay is so deep it is quite out of your way going in then back out. Any of Calvi, Girolata, Propriano, Bonifacio would be 100x nicer imho. All those except Girolata have good fuel too

 

[scubaman]

Just a thought and something your skipper will no doubt consider, but with brand new engines I presume a certain regime regarding the running in period has to be followed. This could be a factor in your planning. Maybe someone with more experience could advise?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

It's a bit "depends". If heavy rain preceding week (= branches and debris from rivers till you are well clear of coast) or no moon then I might do that at 9 knots (and why rush). If close to full moon you will have the same visibility almost as day sailing and I have often done that trip at 20 knots.

I have no idea why you are aiming for Ajaccio though. There are much nicer places and the bay is so deep it is quite out of your way going in then back out. Any of Calvi, Girolata, Propriano, Bonifacio would be 100x nicer imho. All those except Girolata have good fuel too

Fuel available at Porto for Girolata, although maybe too small/shallow for Artemisia? 225nm straight shot from Sete though. (As you know jfm I'm a big fan of Girolata, lovely place for a couple of days stop).

 

[BartW]

all my night cruising so far I did at displacement speed, 9 or 10kn, because of the small risc of hitting a hard object that you can't see.
even with perfect visibility, and full moon, its hard to see a floating object on the surface,
also pay attention that you must be able to extinguish most of the deck lightning, and dim plotter and screen lights, in order to see something in the dark.

For making the "day" part a bit less boaring, and to have a backup plan in case of unexpected bad weather, or when you only have a small timeframe of stable good weather forecast,
you could consider to sail along SOF Cassis - Toulon, - Porquerolles, then crossing to cap Corse, and then a nice traject along the Island Elba, Pianosa, Monte cristo at a distance, Giglio and Giannutri, and than maybe Ponza and Ischia, or along the coast to Salerno
just an idea

 

[Portofino]

I would be reluctant to a night passage so long and so early into new ownership . With or without someone else to helm and an engineer person .
As JFM infers thers all sorts of stuff floating about ,
Mid way to Corsica out of sight of land I had a whale come up in front , a weather bouy ( not on the chart ) ,a yellow beach anchor bouy , logs ,nets , and trees .
Each time I,ve had to rapidly turn and slow to avoid .
It would terrify me to do a night crossing when you can choose .Can,t see the point of poolting @9 knots or so ?
There's a guy on my pontoon who has an IPS boat ( it's now for sale ) whacked something -fwd facing props -causing huge damage ----- at dusk coming back from N Italy .

 

[BartW]

I.Can,t see the point of poolting @9 knots or so ?

Oh sure I can,
You can swap wheel every 2/3 hours, and sleep inbetween,
I can sleep fairly good in a stabilised boat, with the constant humming of the engines
You are gaining some time while doing a long traject,
and the bonus is less than half of the fuel consumption over that distance,

 

[Portofino]

Oh sure I can,
You can swap wheel every 2/3 hours, and sleep inbetween,
I can sleep fairly good in a stabilised boat, with the constant humming of the engines
You are gaining some time while doing a long traject,
and the bonus is less than half of the fuel consumption over that distance,

Depends how fast ones day speed is ?
I mean,t at night -you should be in bar or restaurant or in a nice marina , with shorepower .
During the day on my del trip we cruised near 30 knots leaving 1/2 hour before dawn and refuelling at lunch .
You can and we did - cover a lot of miles and enjoy the scenery safely .
In 3 hours ie from 6am to 9 am I have made up your distance @ 9 knots

Hare and the tortoise - hare travels in daylight

 

[MapisM]

Can,t see the point of poolting @9 knots or so ?

LOL, forget BartW explanations. I'm sure you can think of some objections.
It's much simpler than that, you should just wait.
Seeing the point of pootling is a simply matter of when, rather than if.

That said, I don't disagree with you.
Actually, with a brand new boat, I'd rather avoid long open passages period - also in daylight.
The trouble with the Bonifacio Strait route (which is obviously the shorter between Sète and Salerno) is in the second leg of that route (Olbia-Salerno), where the distance from the nearest port of call is much higher.
In fact, I would definitely consider the alternative that BartW suggested: a bit longer but very nice, and above all, more coastal.

Oh, and just to avoid misunderstandings, I'm not saying this because I would fear troubles specifically from Artemisia (or any P680 for that matter), but just along the principle of better safe than sorry.
I'd stick to the same principle with any boat of any yard.

Edit: see? I wrote my post before reading your reply to BartW, and indeed I saw your objections coming....
As I said, just wait! I met several moboers who gave up P for D cruising, but the few I know who gave up D cruising, it was just because they had to give up boating completely.

 

[A_8]

Personally I would get really bored and tired if off the plane on open waters during a long night passage and as for seeing stuff in the water that is hiding below the surface during the day, even if you had the stamina to keep constant watch of the water surface you don't see it anyways so you might just keep the speed high and minimizing the time you are exposed to the risk.

Interesting probability calculation when thinking about it, risk of damage increase with speed but how does the risk of actually hitting something relate to distance and time?

Don't know if they are good enough but perhaps one of those forward looking echo sounders will help.

 

[Portofino]

Edit: see? I wrote my post before reading your reply to BartW, and indeed I saw your objections coming....
As I said, just wait! I met several moboers who gave up P for D cruising, but the few I know who gave up D cruising, it was just because they had to give up boating completely.[/QUOTE]

I ,am a converted D person ( however unlikely in a boat that cruisers @30 knots and tops out @38 .) but in DAY LIGHT

8hrs @9knots is what 90 miles or so ---- in the dark why ?
3and 1/2 hours @25 knots + it's covered .
Get up at 6 ( as if you can sleep -excitment) and by 9-10 ish you are we're you would be if you did a night passage -so I can not see the point of hours @ 9 knots in the dark .

Regard passage plan as others -head East day 1 toSof then day 2 N Corsica -4 hours -Elba 3 hours - day 3 - slide down the Coast -can be done in long day to home port .

 

[MapisM]

however unlikely in a boat that cruisers @30 knots and tops out @38

Accepted. Even if seeing the "pootling light" doesn't necessarily imply owning a full D boat, I couldn't see myself enjoying 8 kts cruising for long, while helming an Itama that keeps shouting "hammer my throttles, you wimp!"

To enjoy D cruising (particularly at night, but not only), first and foremost you need a flybridge, stabilized boat.
Or dead calm conditions, of course - but as a mate of mine who forgot more about cruising than I will ever know usually says, the sea is rough, period.
When it's calm, that's just the exception proving the rule.

Otoh, assuming that you also enjoy cruising, rather than just reach a destination (which is not true for everybody, mind), trust me: there's no replacement for displacement, if I may steal and adapt an old cliché.
I don't even try answering your "why?" question: just wait, and give it a try when you will have an opportunity.
Though it's a "conversion" rather unlikely to happen, as long as you still enjoy being glued to the helm seat and to the wheel at 30+ kts - which can also be fun, of course.
But at some stage, you might appreciate more 8 hours spent living aboard than 3 hours helming - in a nutshell, that is the key difference.

 

[MAFWeiss]

Thank you for all the above comments and advice. My initial thought was not to try reach Salerno in two legs, but to have another overnight at Ponza, then to have a very leisurely final leg via refuelling at Procida, then lunch at La Fontinella in Capri, before a gentle potter back to Salerno. And as far as Ajaccio is concerned, thinking of fuel safety, it was just a coastal point that I picked on without any further research into marinas etc, that seemed one of the closest to France, as Bonifaccio might have been a stretch.

One reason why I thought about the overnight leg was that the Prestige skipper has already sailed hull one all the way from Sete to Dubrovnik and then back to Cannes, and that he mentioned that for the return leg he had done (at least one) overnight. By the way, my boat will have had at least three or four days sea-trials with Ancasta before I take possession, though obviously without sailing great distances. The other issue is that I am allocated two days tuition with this skipper as part of the handover, and whilst I was happy to pay for any extra days, it does also depend on how much extra time he will have available to spend with me. I will try to liaise with him over the coming weeks, and get his advise as well as to what plans to make and what he feels most comfortable doing.

Apart from safely getting our precious new boat back to Salerno, I wanted to make sure that we spent the night of Sunday 22nd May moored at anchor in a particular bay in Ponza. That night is a full moon, and the bay is called Baia Chaia Di Luna (Moonlight Bay). We spent three nights moored there this summer and it now one of my wife's favourite (and most romantic) spots… and mine too :cheerful:

 

[jfm]

As JFM infers thers all sorts of stuff floating about .

No I didn't mean to infer (well, imply...) that. When there has been uber heavy rainfall then you get a few trees and similar close to the shore and should take care imho. But absent that factor, and always when offshore, between SofF and Corsica in perhaps 20 crossings by day, and thence on to Sardinia sometimes, I've never seen so much as a twig. That's why I'm happy to do 20 knots with a very good open scanner radar. I invariably time it for full ish moon because I love sailing into the silver streak on the southbound journey, but anything better than 1/2 a moon sees me doing 20 knots at night with all electronics blazing away of course

 

[MAFWeiss]

... in perhaps 20 crossings by day, and thence on to Sardinia sometimes, I've never seen so much as a twig. That's why I'm happy to do 20 knots with a very good open scanner radar. I invariably time it for full ish moon because I love sailing into the silver streak on the southbound journey….

JFM, presume you meant 20 crossings by night rather than day?? The proposed night crossing I was considering would be just two before the full moon. Sadly could not get an open scanner fitted, but have the highest spec dome that Raymarine currently make.

 

[MapisM]

with all electronics blazing away of course

I fully understand the point of the impressive bag of tricks that you've got on Match - in fact, I wish I had half of that on my old tub.

That said, in the great visibility conditions that you describe, I found it effective to do just the opposite: leave the whole dashboard turned on, but with zero backlighting, i.e. just ready to be used if and when necessary.
I mean, once the a/p is set to stick to the plotter route, there's no need to bother about navigation. And for collision avoidance, something that can beat the human eye in good visibility has not been invented yet, imho - as long as it's not blinded by any internal lights, that is!
Of course, for this to work, ALL internal lights must be turned off. Which is no big deal in boats with a fully enclosed p/house, but in the rather popular open layouts, it might be an annoying restriction for anyone else onboard that might wish to read, cook, eat, etc.

 

[MapisM]

JFM, presume you meant 20 crossings by night rather than day??

My understanding of what J meant is that he never saw so much as a twig offshore even in the 20 crossing he made in daylight, hence he assumes/hopes not to find any big trees also at night.
I would have some reserve with such thinking, but I guess he also has a bombproof insurance, for good measure!

 

[BartW]

Apart from safely getting our precious new boat back to Salerno, I wanted to make sure that we spent the night of Sunday 22nd May moored at anchor in a particular bay in Ponza. That night is a full moon, and the bay is called Baia Chaia Di Luna (Moonlight Bay). We spent three nights moored there this summer and it now one of my wife's favourite (and most romantic) spots… and mine too [/SIZE]:cheerful:

Baia Chaia Di Luna was my first night ever on anker with Blue Angel, a couple of weeks after taking ownership of the boat,
that was may * june 2011, picture taken from the beach just before moon rise ;-) BA is on the left side of the pic.

indeed a wonderfull place
M, then you must know this small tunnel, shortcut from the chaia di Luna beach to Ponza village / port ;-)

 

[BartW]

however unlikely in a boat that cruisers @30 knots and tops out @38 .) but in DAY LIGHT

8hrs @9knots is what 90 miles or so ---- in the dark why ?
3and 1/2 hours @25 knots + it's covered .
Get up at 6 ( as if you can sleep -excitment) and by 9-10 ish you are we're you would be if you did a night passage -so I can not see the point of hours @ 9 knots in the dark .

you'r in another league with your Itama !
mine tops at 26kn, but for me 21..23 is a absolute max, and only light loaded,
normal and usual P cruising is 20kn or at night a comfortable D cruising 10kn

but I agree with you about the exitement of a early morning departure ;
with guests I very often leave a anchorage at Sunrise (5h30), and arrive at a next Anchorage for breackfast and morning swim around 8...9am
fantastic experience !

 

[MAFWeiss]

M, then you must know this small tunnel, shortcut from the chaia di Luna beach to Ponza village / port ;-)

No Bart sadly we did not notice that, as when we there there all the narrow beach area under the high cliffs was closed and fenced off with large yellow warning signs of falling rocks! We will look carefully in May to see if the tunnel is still accessible at all.