what size storm sails

ytd0

ytd0

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Having taken the decision to get some storm sails I searched for a recommended size for our Bav 44. Nothing - so I must beseech knowledgeable forumites.

Here's my initial reasoning.

Standard 130% furling genoa is 53m2. Could probably use this furled down to 20% (10m2) so the storm jib should be less than this - say 5m2.

Standard main is 41m2 but it has only 2 rows of reefing. Rather than a separate trysail I was thinking of having a third row put in to reduce it to 20%, say 8m2.

Any advice appreciated.
 
there is a similar thread running in the liveaboard section.

My opinion is:-

I used to have a heavy storm jib which fitted on an inner - fore-stay which had to be set up (one U bolt) to use.

I have never ever used it in anger.

By the time conditions got to the point it was needed it was far to dangerous to go messing around on the foredeck. Apart from that the deeply furled jib worked well and the 3rd reef in the main has frequently been used. I have found this rig - tiny bit of furling head sail and 3 reefs in the main will get me through all conditions to the point where all the sails need to come off and the parachute sea anchor go in!

Should add my sails are heavy long distance cruising ones but that is because I expect to be out in stronger winds more often.

On the few occasions I have had to 'claw' off a lee shore - and there are few of those I do not hesitate to start the engine and motor sail out of it - albeit slowly.

I think the concept of 'storm sails' came in when we all had hank on head sails and the main sail used to be the main driving force. Great days but gone! Thank goodness!

Michael
 
The ORC/RORC special regs say that a storm sail should be no larger than 5% of the height of the fore-triangle squared. They also say that the main should have the deepest reef that reduces the luff by at least 40%. Those are probably very good places to start.

My preferred approach for my sailing is not to use a storm jib (although I do carry one). Instead I have a flat-cut heavy weather jib that will easily reef down to storm jib size.
 
In my experience, for 6+ winds, a furled jib is near useless.
Although I have never been in a 6 to gale 8 out at sea with a furler in use(thank goodness). I think furling jibs have the advantage in winds between force 1-6 because you can adjust accordingly from the cockpit and make progress to windward with only few turns on the jib which will still have a reasonable shape. I have a detachable inner forestay but as you say could be very dificult to set up in 6+ but if you are expecting heavy weather than one can rig before one sets off.
Must be great to have faith in a furler......I don't seem to be able to trust the buggers
 
I've used the storm sail twice on my Bav 390, 12.15m
Mine was bought from Crusader in Poole and was heavier than the bright orange ones we used when racing. They recommend 80sq ft roughly 7sq m.

It was an essential piece of kit in some fairly serious weather. We had the inner stay mounted when the weather was likely to get worse, and the storm sail clipped on but bagged and tied down. To hoist, it was simply a case of releasing one tie and it would hoist out of the bag from the cockpit.


http://www.crusadersails.co.uk/
 
I havn't sailed cruising cats, which have different requirements in extreme weather. But my experience in beamy boats is that you need to keep steerage at controlled speed as often the worst seas are when swells meet from different directions and then you need to steer for almost each wave.

I've also used the backed storm jib which was acceptable for a hove to situation, in a November storm in Biscay, it was too dark to steer to the waves so we hove to over night. The boat remained balanced and travelling at about 2 knots 45-50 degrees off the prevailing wind and waves.

There is enough windage aft of the mast in this design to push the stern away from the wind so we found a tri sail was never needed.

I hope you never have to use it!
 
Surely that depends entirely on the sail that is on the furler?

I quite agree that it is nonsense to expect a big #1 genoa to be any use at all in an F6. However my smallest furling sail is a #3 jib that I can carry unreefed in F6-7 and being flat cut continues to perform well with a few rolls in in F8+
 
I agree that our furled #1 genoa is not going to get us to windward in f6. But I don't fancy changing to a #3 on the furler every time it goes over f4. So I'm still inclined to a storm sail that hoists over the furled genoa. I have doused a #4 and hanked on a storm jib in f8 on a non-furler boat but my knees took some weeks to recover.

The idea of a second halyard that you use as an inner forestay to hank the storm jib to appeals but that would mean installing anther sheave box in the mast and clutch etc.

Thanks bedouin for those guidelines on size. 5% of the height of the fore-triangle squared is about 9.5m2 which would still be just manageable in f7 but a impossible in f8. This doesn't tally with Tigawaves 7m2 on the Bav39 but then neither does my initial estimate of 5m2.

A 3rd row of reefing that reduces the luff by 40% would give me 11m2 of mainsail. This would seem to be a lot of sail in f8 and I still feel 8m2 woudl be more manageable.

What size do people have on their boats?
 
And the size of the boat, Gordon. We regularly, more regularly than I'd like, sail our R38 in 6+ with a furling 150% genoa . Mind you, it is 9oz sailcloth with a foam luff and seems to set adequately right down to teacloth size.
 
I would certainly take the RORC figures as an upper limit - not the preferred size. But the actual choice of size depends on what other sails are carried.

One of the problems with going with just a rolling #1 and a storm jib is that you have a huge range of wind speeds for which you have no effective foresail (e.g somewhere in the range F5-8).

Having an efficient foresail in those conditions can make the difference between getting home before the rough-stuff hits and having to use the storm canvas in earnest.

For the sailing I do it I think it is essential to be able to make good, comfortable, progress to windward in a rising F6-7 which is where the #3 jib comes into its own. That is particularly an issue on my boat where the majority of the drive comes from the foresail
 
Totally agree too many boats just have the No1.
I had a heavy weight No2 that was cut high so you have good visibilty, it would also roll up half way quite well for intermediate winds. You can see the difference here.
c6c0b61a.jpg
 
A storm sail on a separate, wire inner forestay has got to be worth having. I've got a good furling genny with a foam luff etc and also a No3 high cut to fit on the foil. The reason I have a storm sail & a separate forestay is simply that I do not relish taking down the normal genny and replacing it with the No3 if caugt out in strong winds and a large swell. I do on the other hand think I would be up to furling the genny and deploying a hanked on storm jib on a separate forestay.
 
There's a parallel thread about this going on the liveaboard forum here . Have you actually tried rigging the inner forestay and separate hanked on sail in a big wind sea? I know I couldn't/wouldn't do it.
 
I was prompted to fit a removable inner forestay after pulling the clew out of the genoa when beating, probably over canvased /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif which resulted in a long uncomfortable motor passage.
I now deploy a hanked on jib in a F5 which allows me to point higher if I wish.
I also have the added advantage of running under twin headsails (as Tigawave).
It is a really versatile low cost addition.
 
for once am agreeing with you, was off arklow 3 weeks ago, had just a scrap of 150% genoa out, 3 reefs in the main (lucky that the previous owner had insisted on this) the wind had got up to a steady 35knots with gusts up to 40knots regularly and i actually saw 44knots at one point, we were pointing to windward at about 35 -40 degrees with the engine at 2000 revs and she was doing well, bit bumpy but ok, the third reef line came undone about a mile from the entrance but thats another story!
stu
 
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