What size fire extinguishers?

[rbcoomer]

As part of a DIY project costing I'm looking at automatic fire extinguishers for a 21' cuddy sportsboat engine bay (5L V8 petrol). What size would normally be fitted in this type of vessel? would a couple of 1kg or 2kg units be enough? (There seems to be a big price jump for larger units!)

Thanks in advance.

 

[old_salt]

As part of a DIY project costing I'm looking at automatic fire extinguishers for a 21' cuddy sportsboat engine bay (5L V8 petrol). What size would normally be fitted in this type of vessel? would a couple of 1kg or 2kg units be enough? (There seems to be a big price jump for larger units!)

Thanks in advance.

It is not as easy as stick in a dry powder say 1 or 2 kg a bit hit and mis with a heat sensor or solid state link.
To do the job properly it requires a survey to establish the correct type of equipment.
Auto fire extinguishers work on the space and volume it is protecting and the type of fire it is to put out, ie petrol, diesel, oil, gas, electric components in a fibre glass, steel or wood compartment.
You need to speak to someone in the business.
We had two twenty ton tanks of CO2 stored at 360 psi at 36*F protecting a three story building Half the size of a football pitch.
I am not saying you will need anything like that.
and it doesn't have to cost the earth.

 

[markcw]

I down loaded a chart to work out my engine bay area and what size extinquishers I need after the maths i needed a 2kg powder, problem is i cant fit a 2kg in the bay any where. made a few phone calls to various people and was advised to place a 1kg auto powder to the most obvious place were a fire could start. that was advised as the fuel line-fuel pump-fuel tank area, which for my boat is all close togther, installed it and no problems since,

spoke to my insurance people and they advised all i need to do for my policy is to carry a powder. i do need to worry about the halon replacment.

I do carry onboard 1kg auto pwr and a 1kg manual powder and a 1kg manual water. and have just only recently installed a fuel cut off valve.

But there is one problem with all auto fire extinquishers is the set of temp is 37 deg my engine bay can reach above that around the top area, so placed my low, and just hope my auto never goes off becuase of the temp

mark

 

[rbcoomer]

Thanks guys.

I thought that given most 21' inboard boats were likely to be a similar space there would be a standard answer. Shows not to assume I guess!

I carry a 2kg dry powder in the current 14' which is an outboard, so thought 2 x 2kg would probably be ample. I'd always prefer some redundancy anyway - even if that means overkill.

At this stage I'm only looking at project costings so I think I'm probably safe working on 2 x 2kg autos for engine bay plus a 2kg for cabin at this stage. I can and will seek some expert opinion when I actually start.

 

[yacht surveyor]

Have a chat with Fireguard Services in New Milton.
They should be able to advise for you and get you the kit.
We use them for our extingusihers on our charter yacht and have been very happy with their service and knowledge.

No links - just a happy customer.

 

[moonraker 36]

just pull the bung out of the back of the boat.
should take care of the fire nicely......

 

[rbcoomer]

Have a chat with Fireguard Services in New Milton.
They should be able to advise for you and get you the kit.
We use them for our extingusihers on our charter yacht and have been very happy with their service and knowledge.

No links - just a happy customer.

Bookmarked their site - thanks.

 

[rbcoomer]

just pull the bung out of the back of the boat.
should take care of the fire nicely......

Economy option eh? (I think oil/fuel floats however... )

 

[moonraker 36]

i have 2x1kg autos either side of my v8 5.7l,
and another 2kg manual next to d/seat.
boat is a 17.5ft winner wildcat.
if that dos'nt work i would be taking a dip anyway.

 

[rbcoomer]

i have 2x1kg autos either side of my v8 5.7l,
and another 2kg manual next to d/seat.
boat is a 17.5ft winner wildcat.
if that dos'nt work i would be taking a dip anyway.

Thanks. That's roughly in line with what I would expect and for my cost projections I'm working on the basis of 2x2kg autos for engine bay + 1x2kg for helm-side entrance to cuddy (i.e. accessible from helm, cuddy and cockpit). Unlike some sports-boats where there are small seats either side of engine bay this one will be full width so there will be a bigger void and thus more suppressant required. I'd also err on the side of caution and factor in some redundancy so more smaller units seems a better option than fewer, larger units.

I'm a few weeks away from collecting project anyway and probably 6-8 months away from fitting out stage, so plenty of time to speak to the guys at Fireguard with actual measurements and volume etc before I start.

Thanks everyone for all the help as always.

 

[Spi D]

A firefighting course is a great investment.

Went to one and got to put out fire in oil, fuel etc. With small extinguishers experience makes all the difference as you get one attempt only.

6 kg is what you really need, but these aren't easily fitted to boats of a modest size.

 

[rbcoomer]

A firefighting course is a great investment.

Went to one and got to put out fire in oil, fuel etc. With small extinguishers experience makes all the difference as you get one attempt only.

6 kg is what you really need, but these aren't easily fitted to boats of a modest size.

Hadn't thought of doing a course, but good idea.

On size, wouldn't 3 x 2kg offer a better disbursement and some redundancy in the unlucky event of one not activating?

 

[Spi D]

That may be true. Equipment like this must be checked at intervals to ensure working order.

When a fire develops every second counts. At first you could do with few drops of water, soon everything is too little.

A good size extinguisher with a lever to accurately dose and means to direct the medium exactly to the source of fire, is the fastest and most effective firefighter.
Most small extinguishers have a startbutton and will empty at once. Unless you coincidally hit the fire, it is a complete waste.

I'd suggest you do a course first. Then, based on what you learn, decide on the equipment.

With even basic training plain water, a fire blanket and some smart thinking will add a lot to you possibilities in the event of fire.

 

[landlockedpirate]

I'm not an expert, but its not recommended to use 2x1kg in place of 1x2kg extinguisher. It's to do with not putting the fire out completely and if the 2 single extinguishers don't go off at exactly the same time, the remaining one may not fire. (Advice was in MBM earlier in the year )

 

[rbcoomer]

Thanks guys. I think they have to be automatic for insurance (so I've heard) but will confirm that before I get to buying/installing. Interesting comments on the 2 vs 1 as I'd not heard that before. Perhaps I need to consider how much is needed/recommended and then look to install two at that size? i.e. either one on it's own should suffice?

 

[moonraker 36]

rdcoomer.
can'nt exactly remember what size autos i have in engine bay.they might be 2kg each plus the hand held.your insurance will tell you what they require.
the point i was making was on a small boat you aint going to spend allday trying to put out a fire.if my motor catches fire..the boat can burn and i'll swim for it..

 

[markcw]

my insurance details request that i have a fire extinquisher that it, so i rang them up for further info and all they said i need is a powder or halon replacement, when asked about size of extinquisher they said its not the size, there happy as long as you have one.

my opion of 2 small or 1 big one is this, if you have a 1 auto large extiq and it does not go off then that its.

if you have 2 small if one fails then you have a backup finger crossed, and if there are placed together side by side then there should be no reasion why the second one wont trigger unless its faulty.
I carry a manual 1kg powder so if the auto fails i can manualy inject it through my cup holder over engine bay cover. i made various phones call to different fire prevention company and the one thing i was told to do from each one, is to have a small access hole near or above the engine/fuel tank were a manual extiq can be inserted or the oulet can be inserted, secdondly powder does not have to be pointed directly at the source, it removes the air and starves the flame of oxygen so a cloud is what is needed, not a direct hit, and secondly make sure the engine bay area is sealed so none of the powder can escape as this will weaken the powder mixture.

mark

 

[rbcoomer]

Thanks Mark - very informative and comprehensive. The boat is over 20 years old so is going to attract scrutiny of insurers anyway and because I'm going to restore myself I'm going to need evidence of work undertaken all along the way which will need to meet or exceed their expectations. At this stage I'm working through everything that will need to be done in as much detail as I can, looking at best means to tackle and then costing it.

I think the 2 x small is ok if either one is sufficient to extinguish the fire. The comments earlier about one not going off isn't so much that one may be faulty, but more because they are triggered by heat. They'll probably not activate at the exact same time and therefore when the first one goes off, the sudden release of compressed material will result in a temperature drop that may prevent the second from activating. However, I'm currently thinking that if the recommended amount of suppressant is say 2kg then with 2x2kg fitted, either one should extinguish any fire. Equally, the second would activate if the first failed or fire re-ignited for any reason. I do however now appreciate that 2x1kg or even 3x1kg (if a total of 2kg is recommended) is not an ideal choice.

 

[markcw]

This is the site i went to alot, and realy wanted to use there produts, and i have been told that fairline use them. just looks expensice stuff but great info for all of us

http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/

more info
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/manuals.htm

engine room volume chart
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/manuals/Engine Room Volume Worksheet.pdf

 

[rbcoomer]

This is the site i went to alot, and realy wanted to use there produts, and i have been told that fairline use them. just looks expensice stuff but great info for all of us

http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/

more info
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/manuals.htm

engine room volume chart
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/manuals/Engine Room Volume Worksheet.pdf

Thanks Mark, bookmarked that one too...