What setup for second anchor?

[Cardo]

Not sure whether I should post this here or in the Liveaboard forum, but I hope that lot will also read this here.

I'm currently equipping our boat for future long term cruising. As part of that, I've bought a second anchor to act as a kedge/backup/storm anchor. Our insurance also requires we have a second anchor onboard.

The primary anchor is an original Bruce with plenty of chain and some warp on the bow roller running through the electric windlass. This is what will normally be used when anchoring.

I've also bought a Fortress anchor. It's primary use will be as a kedge anchor, however I would also like to have it set up to act as a second anchor in case of unavoidable storm.

As a kedge anchor, I was thinking of having 5m or so of chain and then plenty of warp. This would be used for keeping the boat in a particular position in tight anchorages or on the very rare occasion that we moor bows to (as it's not easy to get off the boat from the bow!).

As a storm anchor, I had read the idea of attaching a second anchor with 5m of chain to the bow anchor so as to have two anchors of a single chain off the bow. (I read another forumite suggesting this and quite like the idea). This way if an anchor drags, the other anchor will also come into play and the boat will be tugging on both anchors, thus more secure.

My thoughts were to have 5m chain attached to the anchor with a shackle at the end that could then either be attached to a small length of chain with a length of warp spliced into this to use as a kedge or to attach to the main anchor chain to act as a storm anchor.

Does this sound like a sensible idea? How do others have their second anchors set up?

Boat is 34ft GRP.

Thanks all.

 

[pcatterall]

More or less what we have just done. Kedge anchor sits tied on stern. Length of chain in locker plus long heavy warp with eye and shackles prepared and tested to fit chain to kedge warp to chain. Also warp can be used to extend bow anchor if we need to and is also our dedicated tow rope! I think main thing is to know what/where you have for any possible task, ensure that the set up is tested and that the crew know how to use it all.

 

[westhinder]

It is what we had on the previous boat, with a CQR as main and a Bruce as secondary anchor. Never had to use it in earnest though, so no experience there.
Planning to get a similar set up on the new one.

 

[Mudisox]

As you seem likely to keep the kedge towards the stern, I suggest that if you wish to use the system of doubling up on the one anchor, have sufficient chain on the kedge to be able to unshackle it from the warp at the stern and reattach it to the bow anchor without having to carry it all the way up to the bow. The weather is never kindly when pushed!!

 

[LadyInBed]

I recently asked HMV (Vyv Cox) about deploying two anchors for heavy weather and his recommendation was to deploy them in V configuration.

• You don't have to lift the first to lay the second.
• The anchors wont break out so easily if the boat yaws

I carry three anchors (plus a couple of folding grapnels ) Two heavy - a Delta (main) and a Danforth (backup) and a smaller Danforth as a kedge.
I have 10mtrs of 8mm chain + 30mtrs of anchor plat for the second anchor and a 14kg chum to deploy where / if necessary.

 

[Kelpie]

A friend of mine who is part way round a circumnavigation is a big fan of tandem anchoring. You have to make sure, though, that you the length of chain between the anchors is greater than the water depth.

 

[macd]

I recently asked HMV (Vyv Cox) about deploying two anchors for heavy weather and his recommendation was to deploy them in V configuration.

I'd go along with that, definitely, particularly if short-handed. It also helps that if the second bower is on mainly rope rode, it acts a a shock-absorber to protect the main bower. That's very much how it feels, at any rate.

I would definitely suggest that the OP doesn't limit his boat to 1 bower and 1 kedge. If likely to be anchoring as much as many liveaboards, a spare dedicated bower would be prudent. On a related subject, the best £4 I spent on the boat was for an extra alarm speaker to wire into the GPS (simple job): if she drags, it will wake me (and half the rest of the anchorage).

 

[westhinder]

A friend of mine who is part way round a circumnavigation is a big fan of tandem anchoring. You have to make sure, though, that you the length of chain between the anchors is greater than the water depth.

What is the reasoning behind this?

 

[CaSam]

As you seem likely to keep the kedge towards the stern, I suggest that if you wish to use the system of doubling up on the one anchor, have sufficient chain on the kedge to be able to unshackle it from the warp at the stern and reattach it to the bow anchor without having to carry it all the way up to the bow. The weather is never kindly when pushed!!

Sound Advice!

 

[prv]

I would definitely suggest that the OP doesn't limit his boat to 1 bower and 1 kedge.

Agree - that's the first thing I thought when I saw "long term cruising" and a plan to have only two anchors. Cruisers always seem to end up with lots of big anchors, and I doubt it's because they all have a fetish for galvanised steel.

Pete

 

[macd]

What is the reasoning behind this?

Presumably so you only have the dead weight of one anchor to cope with at any one time when retrieving, and particularly so one can manhandle the 'rearward' hook more easily?

 

[Nostrodamus]

Just a thought here.
Is there a way of spliting anchor chain at say 10m from the anchor and rejoining it with something that can be undone. If an anchor does get stuck or fouled and you need to move you could attach an anchor bouy to the 10m of chain and anchor to retrieve it later but would still have the majority of your chain left to attach another anchor rather than dumping it all.
I know there may be problems using a capstan with something like this but just a thought. Wondered if anyone had heard of something like this?

 

[ukmctc]

tandom anchoring is ok but you need a good 10 mtrs of chain between the anchors, or if they drag, the out anchor will possible get pulled through the furrow made by the first.
I think the V anchor is a good idea, again though a wide V.

I use a Delta type bow anchor 35lbs with 60 mtrs chain, my second is a Scottish 25lbs CQR with 8 mtrs of chain and 30 mtrs warp alone with 60 mtrs of anchor/mooring webbing on the stern.
I've found so far, living aboard cruising its been ample for the past 3 years.

 

[fireball]

Just thinking about this "inline" anchoring ...

When you lay down the anchors at first, chances are one will bite and the other will not have set - you'll not be able to apply an additional load to the one that hasn't set as any load you apply will go first onto the one that has set.
Taking that on - in the stormy conditions where you're testing the holding power (which is when you're going to be using this) then you're still relying mostly on the one anchor to hold you - when that breaks out all the load will be transferred to the second anchor.
So this doesn't appear to be the sort of application you want ...

LiBed said about the V configuration - that sounds more sensible as you can alter the loading on each anchor, it prevents sheering (so much), you can set the second anchor without needing to lift the first (handy if you're already at anchor and the conditions deteriorate).

Granted you're not going to want to lug 10 or more meters of chain from stern to bow - so you're going to need a second length of chain in the bow (or close by) to attach a second bower anchor ..

 

[macd]

Just thinking about this "inline" anchoring ...

When you lay down the anchors at first, chances are one will bite and the other will not have set - you'll not be able to apply an additional load to the one that hasn't set as any load you apply will go first onto the one that has set.
Taking that on - in the stormy conditions where you're testing the holding power (which is when you're going to be using this) then you're still relying mostly on the one anchor to hold you - when that breaks out all the load will be transferred to the second anchor.
So this doesn't appear to be the sort of application you want ...

LiBed said about the V configuration - that sounds more sensible as you can alter the loading on each anchor, it prevents sheering (so much), you can set the second anchor without needing to lift the first (handy if you're already at anchor and the conditions deteriorate).

Granted you're not going to want to lug 10 or more meters of chain from stern to bow - so you're going to need a second length of chain in the bow (or close by) to attach a second bower anchor ..

Pretty much my thinking, although I've never used in-line, and it certainly has its adherents.

My normal practice with a 'V' is to have just five metres of chain on the second hook (obv not a good idea if any risk of bottom chafe): this seems to maximise the 'bungee' effect. Obviously lots of scope for both hooks is a given. Incidentally my spare bower lives at the bow; I'm well aware this does nothing for keeping the bow light, but if it isn't there it's on the other overhang, in the lazarette. It may as well live where it's needed.

I'd heartily endorse what seems to be your underlying thought: that whatever set-up you use, it should be easy and quick to deploy (and recover). In practice, that's often the difference between its being used and not.

 

[LadyInBed]

Granted you're not going to want to lug 10 or more meters of chain from stern to bow - so you're going to need a second length of chain in the bow (or close by) to attach a second bower anchor ..

POI - 10mtrs of 8mm @ 1.35kg per mtr is less than the weight of my chum (14kg of lead flashing in a 11mmD plastic drain pipe).

The chain in a bucket is manageable, but I grant you that you don't want to be doing it several times a day I keep the chain and chum low near the rear to keep the extra weight off the bow and it is convenient for the kedge

 

[vyv_cox]

I don't have any anchoring evidence for this but in other engineering duties it rarely happens that load or force is applied equally over two in-line carriers. Examples are bolts, in which 90% of the load is carried on the first thread, high pressure seals in which the first one carries almost all of it, and several others. I doubt very much that in tandem anchoring the load is divided between the two. I would prefer to have the best new generation anchor possible, oversized if appropriate, and accept that no anchor will hold in the most extreme conditions.

I would not have a Bruce as my primary anchor, even a genuine one. It holds very well in some bottoms but is insufficiently versatile. Fortress is perfect as a kedge. For long term cruising i would buy a new generation anchor and keep the Bruce as a spare.

 

[cmedsailor]

V anchoring is good only if the wind direction is more or less constant. If it changes 360 degrees you will end up with a spagetti rode and if you need to make an emergency move then you are lost.

 

[macd]

V anchoring is good only if the wind direction is more or less constant. If it changes 360 degrees you will end up with a spagetti rode and if you need to make an emergency move then you are lost.

Very true and I (we?) should have made that clear.
Mind you, the only reason I can see for V-anchoring is if you know the poo's about to hit the fan...which means you'd have seen a forecast...which means you'd know the predicted behavour of the wind.
A Vee can certainly accomodate a degree of windshift, especially if you're able to adust the length of one of the rodes.

 

[KellysEye]

If you are going long distance sailing I would strongly recommend all chain on the main anchor. Also a third heavy storm anchor, at least 50% more weight than the main anchor.

We carry a CQR with 280 feet of chain, a Fortress with 100 feet of chain and 100 feet of warp and a monster Fortress as a storm anchor also with 100 feet of chain and 100 feet of warp.

We never put two anchors in line, I wouldn't trust them not to tangle. When we put out two anchors they were at a 60 degree angle.

>It also helps that if the second bower is on mainly rope rode, it acts a a shock-absorber to protect the main bower.

I disagree. A lot of rope and not much chain will guarantee the anchor will drag in strong winds. When using chain the catenary acts as the primary shock absorber and rope tied to to a cleat and hooked to the chain with a loop in the chain above the hook acts the secondary.

All the long distance boats we met carried three or four anchors and large quantities of chain and warp, you can't have too much. Remember the boat is your home.