gregcope
Well-Known Member
Agreed - most of it is similar - GPS, location logic, transmitter, battery, case etc...
Another advantage of AIS is that, with a suitable plotter, it can be plotted on the yachts plotter.
What PLB. to buy?
- Thread starter lancelot
- Start date
Agreed - most of it is similar - GPS, location logic, transmitter, battery, case etc...
Another advantage of AIS is that, with a suitable plotter, it can be plotted on the yachts plotter.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
Where I sail if I wish to go more than 40 nm offshore I must have an EPIRB by law.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Dismasted in Atlantic - good news land only 5nm away - bad news it's straight down.
noelex
Well-Known Member
Yes many countries have the same requirements. It is a pity some governments don't give us more freedom based on individual circumstances.
For example the common situation of a boat with two crew and a recently expired EPIRB. Buying two PLBs attached to the crew members lifejacket/harness makes much more sense to me than buying another EPIRB.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
I am rather surprised that that are many threads about PLB's and usually that raises EPIRBs but there has never been a thread about how to stop going overboard, which is the single most important thing when sailing, after getting injured and what to do.
I mentioned how not to go overboard in a post but nobody even commented on it let alone said its a good idea. It seems to me priorities are wrong. If sailors were to do what I recommended the there is no need to spend money on a PLB sailing inshore, because you won't go overboard. The only reason we had an EPIRB was we were going ocean sailing and we also had a life raft, both in case we sank. We also had jackstays etc as detailed in my original post which meant we didn't need PLBs.
I mentioned how not to go overboard in a post but nobody even commented on it let alone said its a good idea. It seems to me priorities are wrong. If sailors were to do what I recommended the there is no need to spend money on a PLB sailing inshore, because you won't go overboard. The only reason we had an EPIRB was we were going ocean sailing and we also had a life raft, both in case we sank. We also had jackstays etc as detailed in my original post which meant we didn't need PLBs.
noelex
Well-Known Member
You are mistaking the purpose of the PLB.
It is should thought of as an alternative to EPIRB, but in a smaller package. They can be attached to lifejacket/harness, but the reason for this is not as a MOB device, but as a way ensuring the device is readily available.
A PLB serves the same function as an EPIRB but is always immediately on hand whenever your lifejacket/harness is worn. With a crew of two each member can have a PLB attached to their life jacket/harness for a similar cost to a single EPIRB.
An EPIRB may be impossible to recover in the event of fire, or rapid sinking for example. It can also be lost overboard say when launching the liferaft. The PLB option reduces the chances of taking to liferaft without a means of attracting attention.
A PLB is better than nothing in a MOB situation, but that is not its primary purpose.
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bedouin
Well-Known Member
IMHO Jackstays are not a substitute for a PLB any more than they are a substitute for a lifejacket or a lliferaft. Do you really think that "fit jackstays" (or whatever) is a helpful answer to the question "what PLB should I buy"?
Given the current size and cost of a PLB I would question why anyone would wear a lifejacket and not carry a PLB.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>IMHO Jackstays are not a substitute for a PLB any more than they are a substitute for a lifejacket or a lliferaft. Do you really think that "fit jackstays" (or whatever) is a helpful answer to the question "what PLB should I buy"?
I'm not suggesting that jackstays, harness and a long and short tether are a substitute for a PLB, life raft or lifejacket. As I said we had an EPIRB, life raft and I didn't mention we had life jackets too and gave the reason why, ocean sailing. What I did say and strongly believe is the number one priority when sailing is to not have an MOB and gave precisely how to stop it. If you stop MOBs you don't need PLB's.
I'm not suggesting that jackstays, harness and a long and short tether are a substitute for a PLB, life raft or lifejacket. As I said we had an EPIRB, life raft and I didn't mention we had life jackets too and gave the reason why, ocean sailing. What I did say and strongly believe is the number one priority when sailing is to not have an MOB and gave precisely how to stop it. If you stop MOBs you don't need PLB's.
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
Rather a sweeping statement there KE - Collision, holed and sinking, fire, I can think of at least half a dozen scenarios where being onboard a stricken vessel will not help you, but getting a message, fast, to the emergency services will. So, at the point linking a PLB to an MOB is moot.
Incidentally, only non-GPS PLB's have the achilles heal of taking an hour plus to get a notification and location. A GPS equipped PLB will usually alert and give a location within 20 minutes of activation.
Oh and yes, Pete is right, McMurdo are currently researching a combined PLB/AIS beacon, this was confirmed in their COSPAS/SAR live web seminars this year.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
> Collision, holed and sinking, fire, I can think of at least half a dozen scenarios where being onboard a stricken vessel will not help you, but getting a message, fast, to the emergency services will. So, at the point linking a PLB to an MOB is moot.
If coastal day sailing in moderate weather, which most boats do, those things are unlikely. If the skipper thinks they are possible do what we did and get an EPIRB and life raft and flares for start. The reason I stress avoiding MOBs as the skipper has a legal duty of care to the crew. Some years ago a yacht entered the eastern Solent in a gale and wind against tide, one of the crew was washed overboard and died, the skipper was prosecuted, the MOB wasn't clipped on.
If single hand, as the OP is, they can do what they want. One of the Caribbean weather radio nets gave yacht types, names and crew that were overdue. 28% of the boats mentioned were single handers and they account for less than one per cent of long distance boats, from what I saw.
If coastal day sailing in moderate weather, which most boats do, those things are unlikely. If the skipper thinks they are possible do what we did and get an EPIRB and life raft and flares for start. The reason I stress avoiding MOBs as the skipper has a legal duty of care to the crew. Some years ago a yacht entered the eastern Solent in a gale and wind against tide, one of the crew was washed overboard and died, the skipper was prosecuted, the MOB wasn't clipped on.
If single hand, as the OP is, they can do what they want. One of the Caribbean weather radio nets gave yacht types, names and crew that were overdue. 28% of the boats mentioned were single handers and they account for less than one per cent of long distance boats, from what I saw.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Remember Ouzo?
Two of the crew survived in the water for 24hrs after the sinking - had they carried PLBs on their LJs they would still be alive today.
I see no reason not to fit a Lifejacket with a PLB these days - it is hard to think of an occasion when you might need the LJ that a PLB wouldn't help. So to say that you need lifejackets but don't need PLBs seems a bit perverse.
prv
Well-Known Member
Really?
Someone slips over the side of a boat with two or three other people on board, on an average August day on the south coast. They're surprised and shocked, but within thirty seconds they've rolled the jib away, strapped the main amidships, and started the engine. After a further thirty seconds they're back with their man, chucking him the end of the mainsheet (they should really have had a buoyant heaving line, but it's in a locker somewhere and the mainsheet was to hand in the cockpit). They have an AWB with a platform stern and a swim ladder, and wearing shorts and a rugby shirt their floater is able to clamber aboard without too much trouble. Much relief all round, wobbly legs as the adrenalin disperses, and he's down below to dry off and warm up.
I'm not trying to play down the hazards of a man overboard, obviously there are any number of scenarios where things are far worse than the above - but neither do I think it's unrealistic for the sailing a lot of us do.
The PLB probably first got a fix while the man was being manoeuvred round to the stern, and by the time it's flashed up on a computer in Falmouth he's already in the saloon with the kettle on. The PLB hasn't been any help, and I didn't find this situation hard to think of.
(Now watch as the two-tone perception disease kicks in and people criticise me for saying PLBs are useless in all situations
)
Pete
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Anwen
Well-Known Member
Keith, I've got the ACR ResQlink. It clips onto my LJ which I always wear, whether I've got crew or am single handed. The aerial can unclip itself from the stowed position which is sometimes a nuisance, but otherwise it's a good bit of kit. The McMurdo equivalents didn't used to have positive buoyancy so had to be stowed in the pouch to ensure they would float. I don't know whether the current ones have fixed this.
prv
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure they still don't float.
I don't really see this as a defect in need of "fixing" - it's more of a design choice. Given a certain necessary weight of batteries and circuitry, the only way to increase buoyancy is to displace more water by making the case bigger. No PLB that I know of will work while free-floating, they all need to be held out of the water, so the buoyancy is only useful to avoid losing it. Personally I would rather use a piece of string for that purpose and have a smaller case.
Pete
AshleyWright
Member
I've got the ACR ResQlink, always clipped onto my LJ. I'm mostly sailing alone in Cornwall so it reasures me (and the family). As Keith said above, sometimes the aerial can unclip otherwise its unobtrusive.
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
So why did you need a life jacket most people could swim for that short period.
I'd have hit the DSC red button during that process. I'd have expected the swimmer to activate PLB. All easily cancelled. Only takes a missed attempt to retrieve for it all to go wrong..
prv
Well-Known Member
See, I knew I couldn't answer a simple question without people addressing a different one.
The challenge was to imagine a situation where a PLB didn't help. That is all. Obviously there are any number of situations where a PLB would help, but that is a different question.
If someone is back on board within five minutes, a PLB cannot possibly have helped because there wasn't time for anyone to react to it.
I'm not advising what you should do, I'm not predicting what is most likely to happen - I am simply imagining one scenario which is a) plausible and b) one in which a PLB wouldn't help.
Pete
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DinghyMan
Well-Known Member
I've made a good few PLB canisters for both the McMurdo and ACR ResQlink for dive use as more and more of us divers carry them just in case
Another bit of kit that is worth considering is the Nautilus LifeLine http://www.nautiluslifeline.com/nautilus_lifeline which sends DSC alerts
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
No. Read the challenge again. You are challenged to provide a scenario where a LJ was needed and a PLB wouldn't help. Your scenario didn't need a LJ as they were rescued in 1 minute and in the water on a warm day in shorts an t shirt. So .. .. I await the scenario where a LJ is needed and a PLB adds no advantage. I can think of one. But its not yours.
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
If its on a waist pouch beware that after having hit the drink and LJ deployed you are best to activate it and lie it on your chest on your LJ. If lanyard is short you can't do that... Float means if you drop it it.... ERM floats... Most lanyards I've seen are too short to keep attached to waist while on chest...