saltylegs
Well-Known Member
Angus rock isn't the bar, but you will still get standing waves at Angus rock that's why the canoedelists (sic) go there.
What or where is the nastiest wind against tide situation?
- Thread starter Greenheart
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lw395
Well-Known Member
Langstone is a safe warm place compared to Chichester. Just a bit muddy and nowhere to go when you're in.
There is deep water in the channel.
The worst wind over tide is shallow water, with step changes in depth.
I say 'worst' it can of course be damn good fun jumping an old 505 off the angry water at Gilkicker in F7.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Corbiere can be a bit rough but I would not put it in the "really rough" places list
Contest1
Well-Known Member
Worst I rember was comeing out of Carlingford against the flood into an Easterly on my comp crew.
Probably not as bad as it seemed but it was a good lesson in passage planning!
Probably not as bad as it seemed but it was a good lesson in passage planning!
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
This makes sense...I quote from some random site
There are various ways to view the physics of this phenomenon. The scientifically correct way is to look at the movement of the water particles within the wave. Perhaps an easier, more intuitive, way is to realise that a stream or current going in the same direction as the wave train will increase the wavelength relative to the height of the waves. The effect will be a smoother sea.
If there is a stream in the opposite direction to the waves then the wavelength will be decreased relative to the wave height. The waves will become steeper
and they will start to break. Perhaps, more correctly, it is a question of wave direction with or against the tidal stream or current.
The three effects of tidal stream, coastal topography and sea bottom can come together. Such well known danger areas as the Raz de Sein, the Alderney Race, the Swinge, Start Point and Portland Bil
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
Dan
the Wharrata ( sp ?) was a big liner which disappeared off South Africa, the theory is that enormous wave troughs - not peaks - are developed by the current; an RN cruiser, HMS Edindurgh I think, also reported going into a super-trough and water breaking over the bridge a good 60' up
This is in some earlier editions of ' Heavy Weather Sailing '.
Try the "SS Waratah". If you haven't read it, there's a novel by Geoffrey Jenkins which is woven around the story. A damn good read IMHO.
Edited to add the title of the book, which may help anyone interested..... >>>>>> "Scend of the sea"
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Even Chance
Well-Known Member
Pentland Firth. No competition at all.
Ive stood on Duncansby Head and witnessed constant 50 foot wave height wind on tide race. The Merry Men and the Swilkie can be unbelievable to watch sometimes. Wave heights have been reported by local fishing boats of over 100 foot in the firth.
Go and read about the longhope lifeboat disaster. The poor guys were all killed when their boat slammed the sea-bed in a wave trough, and they were in 100ft+ of depth at the time.
Your piddly wee waves cant compare with that surely?
PS, Ive been caught in 20ft standing waves just off Noss Head in my E-Boat. She sailed straight over them perfectly. and never missed a beat. I was knocked flat about 3 miles further South on that same trip however when a gust hit whilst heeled too far already.
Ive stood on Duncansby Head and witnessed constant 50 foot wave height wind on tide race. The Merry Men and the Swilkie can be unbelievable to watch sometimes. Wave heights have been reported by local fishing boats of over 100 foot in the firth.
Go and read about the longhope lifeboat disaster. The poor guys were all killed when their boat slammed the sea-bed in a wave trough, and they were in 100ft+ of depth at the time.
Your piddly wee waves cant compare with that surely?
PS, Ive been caught in 20ft standing waves just off Noss Head in my E-Boat. She sailed straight over them perfectly. and never missed a beat. I was knocked flat about 3 miles further South on that same trip however when a gust hit whilst heeled too far already.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I can't find anything to support the idea that the lifeboat hit the sea bed (in waves would have had to be 200' from peak to trough). All sources seem to agree that she was capsized by a huge wave. Nasty, of course, and tragic, but not quite Moses. The lifeboat concerned is now in the Scottish Maritime Museum, by the way.
Even Chance
Well-Known Member
I'll have a look and find a link. I have the book at home about the longhope lifeboats. Maybe it was in there I read it.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Sailing Directions at http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/SD/Pub141/Pub141bk.pdf says (p141, my emphasis):
"W end of Pentland Firth during the strength of the W current. It begins about 2 hours 15 minutes after HW at Stromness and when the current begins to set W through the Inner Sound. During the first hour of the W current, this tide rip extends W from the Men of Mey Rocks toward Dunnet Head. As the strength of the current increases, the rip gradually trends NW toward Tor Ness, on the opposite and N side of the firth. At the maximum strength of the current, the rip extends clear across the W end of the firth. Even in fine weather, this tidal rip creates an area of heavy and broken sea. During the last 2 hours of the main W current through the firth, the rip becomes detached from the Men of Mey Rocks, leaving a passage between the rocks and the broken sea. During W gales or swells and when the current is strongest, a terrific and violent turbulence is created across the firth. This violent tide rip forms a natural breakwater across the firth and vessels of sufficient power can safely navigate to the E of it in comparatively smooth water. However, the W current setting out of the Outer Sound can be very strong, with rates in excess of 10 knots, and vessels should take care to avoid being swept into the area of the rip."
Seajet
...
Try the "SS Waratah". If you haven't read it, there's a novel by Geoffrey Jenkins which is woven around the story. A damn good read IMHO.
Edited to add the title of the book, which may help anyone interested..... >>>>>> "Scend of the sea"
RustyKnight,
thanks.
Was that the book where a South African Sea Vixen flying ultra low goes into one of the ' holes in the water ' and collides with the wreck on the seabed ?!
While I'm not keen on huge waves, hitting the seabed worries me more, I knew a couple of chancers in a fin keeler who got it wrong at Chichester Bar, the more honest one told me afterwards they could see the bilges flexing and cracking as she got bounced on the seabed; I can well do without that sort of fun !
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
I suppose the answer to the question is not just the wind over tide kicking up nasty/dangerous waves in different places but where people were regrettably killed in that situation. One is off the Needles.
Report here:http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/lcsd.pdf Page 9.
Report here:http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/lcsd.pdf Page 9.
Leighb
Well-Known Member
Try the "SS Waratah". If you haven't read it, there's a novel by Geoffrey Jenkins which is woven around the story. A damn good read IMHO.
Edited to add the title of the book, which may help anyone interested..... >>>>>> "Scend of the sea"
Excellent book, one of his best.
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
Without giving away too much of the plot, a quick leaf through the pages to refresh my memory suggests that one of the planes involved was a Buccaneer, rather than a Sea Vixen..... 
Seajet
...
Yes, please forgive me it's a long time since I read it !
Still gave a whole new meaning to ' far fetched ' though.
For people who enjoyed that, you'll love ' The Ghosts Of KG40 '
Apologies, thread drift out; it's always worth reading the real bible, ' Heavy Weather Sailng ' when edited by Adlard Coles; just don't leave it where SWMBO might glance through it or your next hobby will be home decor, the photo's from the book still give me the frights !
Still gave a whole new meaning to ' far fetched ' though.
For people who enjoyed that, you'll love ' The Ghosts Of KG40 '
Apologies, thread drift out; it's always worth reading the real bible, ' Heavy Weather Sailng ' when edited by Adlard Coles; just don't leave it where SWMBO might glance through it or your next hobby will be home decor, the photo's from the book still give me the frights !
Even Chance
Well-Known Member
Link removed
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Storyline
Well-Known Member
I agree the Sound can get really nasty. We had been going up and down dozens of times but one day it got us. Going North with a following wind with a big spring tide under us. Even before we got to the top we could see the sea looked confused and when we got to the lighthouse on Islay it was horrendous. We had planned to go over to Tinkers Hole but there was no way. We were desperate to get into Loch Tarbert. It was such a huge relief to get under the lee of Jura. The whisky came out as soon as we got the hook down.
prv
Well-Known Member
Good book - though I wonder how relevant the older editions are as serious education (as opposed to background and historical interest) as modern boats are so different from what Adlard Coles did most of his stuff in.
You're not alone in your opinion of the photos. The copy in my downstairs loo was "borrowed" from my parents' bookshelf years ago; the other day my dad was visiting, and spotted it in there. I apologised for pinching it and offered it back - he refused, saying he was quite happy to have it out of the house as it always scared him!
Pete
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Deleted text.
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