What navigation system

[pcatterall]

As we are soon to dip our toes in the Med I need to reconsider our mapping and Navigation set up. I have searched the forum but this made me more confused than ever.
On board we have our old trusty and simple Garmin track plotter which we use for basic navigation. We also have a garmin 451S but no 'foreign charts'
In the UK we used to use paper charts which I would scale and scan in to produce handy A4 chartlets taking off handy way points for the track plotter.
We then 'graduated' to using ( planning and navigating) the 'my harbour' mapping on our small PC. I was still able to print off chartlets which I quite like.The Garmin 451S was handy as a backup and 'another view of things'
That was then..... now we are soon to emerge from the canals and into the Med and need to start getting our navigation together. Our initial sailing area is the French coast but later extending along Spain.
We usually use the PC below decks( and not continuously) and the plotters are in our semi enclosed wheelhouse.

Navionics, C-Map and Garming2 seem to be the main mapping contenders and this is where I need advice.

I suppose Garmin appeals to me as I have the 451S ( although it is very small) I see there is some planning software ( homeport ) which I guess will enable me to plan and print off but can I use this for navigation?
I see that the mapping for our area of immediate interest would cost around £165 or £230 for the 'vision' version The planning software is around £27

Navionics Gold mapping seems to be a similar price ( but for a bigger area) and they have planning software at around £90

C-Map seem to be a similar price to Navionics for the mapping areas and they have a planning tool for around £150

I don't want ( and won't understand) a lot of technical detail and do understand that there will be many opinions on each product. I would appreciate pros and cons in simple terms.
Ideally I would want to have a system where I can navigate and plan on the PC. and take off way points etc. for the track plotter. Nice to use the Garmin chart plotter but I can always sell that and buy another make.
Your help is appreciated.

 

[ukmctc]

remember GPS and electronic charts are only an aid to navigation you should have paper charts.

 

[sailorman]

Wot do the Vendee boys use

remember GPS and electronic charts are only an aid to navigation you should have paper charts.

 

[FWB]

remember GPS and electronic charts are only an aid to navigation you should have paper charts.

Why ?
Get an iPad and Navionics charts. If you're paranoid about the 21st Century then get another iPad as back up. The charts for that will be free.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Not wishing to be contrary but I think that a 'proper' chartplotter is the better if more expensive solution. Better features, able to pre-plan routes on laptop and download, better screen in strong sunlight (not a problem in UK), compatible with AIS. Not much to choose between makes and charts IMO.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Wot do the Vendee boys use

Not much would show on a Vendee type trip, they're only in soundings for about 2 days.

 

[westhinder]

Not wishing to be contrary but I think that a 'proper' chartplotter is the better if more expensive solution. Better features, able to pre-plan routes on laptop and download, better screen in strong sunlight (not a problem in UK), compatible with AIS. Not much to choose between makes and charts IMO.

On my relatively new (to me) boat I have a Raymarine chartplotter that I can put under the sprayhood and which I like for its daylight viewable screen.
However, for navigating and planning I much prefer Seapro, which I run on a mini-pc that I have yet to install at the chart table. I hope I will be able to transfer routes and waypoints onto my plotter for cockpit use. Any experience with such transfers?

 

[Conachair]

Ideally I would want to have a system where I can navigate and plan on the PC. and take off way points etc. for the track plotter. Nice to use the Garmin chart plotter but I can always sell that and buy another make.
Your help is appreciated.

OpenCPN PC charting software is free , though there are issues about the copyright with cm93 charts , if you've bought charts anyway and just use it to plan then you could argue it's OK, down to you.

anyway, it has good route planning and can upload to a Garmin 128 for sure, probably most modern GPS models. But with Garmin it seems to be just waypoints, you still need to make your own routes. But still worth thinking about.

 

[[70521]]

Wot do the Vendee boys use

A big globe; as found in most primary school class rooms

Come to think of it their nav is quite easy, Leave Les Sables-d'Olonne, turn left, pass Spain turn left, pass the Cape of Good Hope turn left, pass Cape Horn turn left now the difficult bit pass Spain and turn right and head for Les Sables-d'Olonne.

I wonder if Dylan would be interested in a wee film?

 

[KellysEye]

Go with charts you have to have them anyway, chartplotters and computer based charts are a waste of money.

 

[LadyInBed]

Go with charts you have to have them anyway, chartplotters and computer based charts are a waste of money.

I could not disagree more!
Chart plotters give you a real time indication of where you are and what is around you in any conditions.
An added bonus is that AIS link to them.

As said above, Opencpn is excellent for passage planning and with a usb gps is a very good backup to the chart plotter.

The OP has a penchant for printing off electronic charts. I would suggest buying BLOC Marine Almanac
see http://www.discount-marine.com/p6368/bloc-marine-2012
and http://nautisme.lefigaro.fr/bloc-marine/votre-livre-de-bord-en-ligne.php
this has a good, up to date, colour, french coastal charts which are at least as good if not better than a print off of an electronic chart.

PS Re: computer based charts - As you are more than likely to have a laptop onboard for electronic mail / internet it would seem more than sensible to install charting software.

 

[mersey]

I suppose Garmin appeals to me as I have the 451S ( although it is very small) I see there is some planning software ( homeport ) which I guess will enable me to plan and print off but can I use this for navigation?
I see that the mapping for our area of immediate interest would cost around £165 or £230 for the 'vision' version The planning software is around £27

Printing directly from Homeport is not allowed with their charts, no doubt due to restrictions placed on them by their license with UKHO if you try to do it from within the app it will stop you. Obviously it's possible to screen grab within windows, and print however, but no doubt you would then be breaching your license terms.

Homeport great for planning however. Fully recommend g2 vision, much better than the g2.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Go with charts you have to have them anyway, chartplotters and computer based charts are a waste of money.

A modern chart plotter with multi-channel GPS reciever will deliver a more accurate fix in almost all conditions compared to paper plus GPS and/or compass and bearings (not to mention human error involved in transposing a bearing or position to a chart). The electronic charts if kept up to date contain the same information as paper (which also need to be kept up to date). In short the electronics work and are faster, they don't suffer from fatigue or brain fade. They also work really well at night and in thick fog.

AIS shows where all the commercial shipping is which is also comforting.

Is this a waste of money? - depends if you're a technophobe or not, the OP obviously isn't, so plotter in a semi-enclosed wheelhouse would be ideal and would provide stress free pilotage and navigation without breaking the bank. Good up-to date pilot books are also a must when you get close to the hard rocky stuff, and I would now prioritise these over paper charts if I had to make a choice.

Paper charts are for most cruising sailors in this day and age a backup to the electronics, they need to be carried and you need to know how to use them but Chart Plotter + AIS is faster and simpler IMHO - it's called progress.

For a budget plotter take a look at the CP180i or CP300i from Standard Horizon - relatively cheap and well liked.

Open CPN is also an excellent piece of software and can transfer waypoints and routes directly to the SH plotter with a bit of wiring - getting the charts is not easy.

SeaClear allows you to use your own scanned charts but it's a bit of a chore.

Navionics is good too, but the devices it runs on aren't as robust or as fit-for-purpose as a dedicated plotter (salt + water + sunlight + vibration + temperature + humidity) - on nice days they're fine, but you really need reliable navigation when the weather closes in and the visibility drops - guaranteed that your iPad/Android Tab will choose this point to die, run out of charge or make a bit for freedom by hurling itself across the cockpit floor - been there, done that - I now have a plotter.
You can buy mounts and cases and chargers etc. but by the time you've bought all this it's the same price as a plotter. As a back-up plotter, or down below, tablets are fantastic.

I have OpenCPN on a laptop at the chart table, an old monochrome plotter also mounted at the chart table, Navionics on a tablet and a mobile phone, a Standard Horizon CP300 at the wheel, and a full compliment of paper charts.
I actually use the CP300, the pilot books and the paper charts. The charts give me the big picture as the plotter screen isn't exactly huge.

 

[V1701]

That's a good post from Baggywrinkle...

I have CP180i with NASA AIS engine as primary & Open CPN, GPS dongle & CM93 charts as back-up. The AIS engine has its own whip aerial mounted on the pushpit & can be an emergency VHF aerial if needed. The CP180i also feeds the DSC VHF...

 

[KellysEye]

>As you are more than likely to have a laptop onboard for electronic mail / internet it would seem more than sensible to install charting software.

But you still have to buy paper charts and as I said charting software is a waste of money that could be spent on paper charts.

>Chart plotters give you a real time indication of where you are

So does a simple GPS.

>and what is around you in any conditions. An added bonus is that AIS link to them.

We use the Mark 1 eyeball or radar in fog, I think AIS is pointless too.

 

[pvb]

A proper chartplotter is just so easy to use, it's waterproof, it's visible in sunlight, it's simple to plan routes, it gives you instantaneous information, you can easily add all the bell & whistles of AIS, radar, etc. What's not to like?

 

[SteveSarabande]

Open CPN is also an excellent piece of software and can transfer waypoints and routes directly to the SH plotter with a bit of wiring -

Open CPN works great on a netbook. The same bit of wiring allows OpenCPN to use the GPS data from the SH Plotter.

getting the charts is not easy.

charts are easily found on the net

 

[Rivers & creeks]

>As you are more than likely to have a laptop onboard for electronic mail / internet it would seem more than sensible to install charting software.

But you still have to buy paper charts and as I said charting software is a waste of money that could be spent on paper charts.

>Chart plotters give you a real time indication of where you are

So does a simple GPS.

>and what is around you in any conditions. An added bonus is that AIS link to them.

We use the Mark 1 eyeball or radar in fog, I think AIS is pointless too.

Don't you find Mark 1 is just soooo entry level? Good seamanship to use all available Nav aids and AIS is £100 extra - but the tone of your post looks ever so slightly troll like. Possibly my mistake, I'm only using Mark 1 eyeball to read your post.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

>As you are more than likely to have a laptop onboard for electronic mail / internet it would seem more than sensible to install charting software.

But you still have to buy paper charts and as I said charting software is a waste of money that could be spent on paper charts.

>Chart plotters give you a real time indication of where you are

So does a simple GPS.

>and what is around you in any conditions. An added bonus is that AIS link to them.

We use the Mark 1 eyeball or radar in fog, I think AIS is pointless too.

That is possibly the most ridiculous post I think I've read on here in a long time - well done!!!

Care to expand on a few points because I really don't get this ....

Why is AIS pointless?

How does GPS tell you where you are without the tedious job of plotting the position on a chart? - this is what a plotter does for you over and above GPS alone.

You seem to be recommending radar. Nowadays radar uses a plotter screen as the display so the whole system certainly isn't cheap - but having bought a plotter as a radar screen you would recommend dispensing with the electronic charts (and presumably the accompanying PC SW) and using paper instead?

I must confess my Mark 1 brain is unable to follow your logic.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Open CPN works great on a netbook. The same bit of wiring allows OpenCPN to use the GPS data from the SH Plotter.

charts are easily found on the net

Well spotted, I forgot the bit about GPS position and the AIS.

To the OP, be aware that getting the CM93 charts off the net will require visiting some of the darker corners of the internet and identifying the correct, safe package to download.

If you are interested in SH stuff .. this is how I connected it to the laptop etc, the laptop gets GPS and AIS info from the plotter and the VHF and can transfer waypoints/routes directly to the plotter ....
It also allows GRIB data for weather as an overlay - just need a phone as a hotspot or a 3G surf stick for the laptop with pay-as-you-go SIM.
It also integrates nicely with the autopilot.

And the binnacle installation looks like this ....