What Mooring Lines

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thesaintlyone

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Quick Question
What is a reasonable minimum starter set for tying up a 21ft sail boat in a tidal marina

On a budget here so please bear that in mind

Regards
 
There'll be others with different opinions but......
I'd have two lines about 1 1/2 - 2 times the length of the boat plus two lines of about the length of the boat. But, and it's a big but, you need to look at the tidal ranges you expect to moor in. If your routinely mooring the boat against a harbour wall the your lines need to be long enough to control the boat as the water level rises and falls. Only you know if you're going to be doing that on regular basis: if you are, then the longer lines need to be twice the length of the boat plus the tidal range (ish) and a bit more for luck.
 
thesaintlyone said:
Quick Question
What is a reasonable minimum starter set for tying up a 21ft sail boat in a tidal marina

On a budget here so please bear that in mind

Regards
Click to expand...

This is Jimmy Greens guide for mooring to a fixed quay or harbour wall https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/p/tech...technical-articles-/mooring-alongside-diagram

In a sheltered marina, mooring to a floating pontoon, you may l be able to economise by omitting the bow line and stern line (1 and 6) or perhaps a compromise between these and breast ropes

Here is J G's size guide. https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/p/tech...-technical-articles-/mooring-warps-size-guide
 
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For a 21ft boat, you may be using relatively light lines, so the most important factor is not which cordage you use, or how you tie up, but avoiding chafe, especially when leaving the boat. Lines made fast to cleats are usually OK, but when tied to rings or hoops are best shackled, or at least cow-hitched.
 
The recommendations from Jimmy Green are ideal for a set of mooring lines which you carry with you for use wherever you end up (including the size details). You specifically asked about use in a tidal marina, so I'm assuming that this is your home berth. In that case, I'd be inclined to find out by trial and error the largest reasonable size that will fit through the fairleads and onto the cleats, measure up for fixed lines to suit. Such lines can be left shackled to the pontoon cleats ready for your return after each trip. They should also have anti-chafe plastic hose fitted where they pass through the fairleads or cross each other or the toerail. The attached ends can be spliced onto a thimble and then shackled onto the legs of the pontoon cleats (allowing other lines to be secured on the horns if required.

Once you've decided what size lines you're going to use, check whether it is cheaper to buy a whole reel, slightly greater than the nominal total (it often is cheaper than buying by the metre). The spare can either be split amongst the lines leaving a bit of extra length for adjustment or might yioeld a usable line left over.

Rob.
 
Good way of buying rope is reel ends from Marine Scene. 12mm 2 strand polyester would make good mooring lines for your boat and you could get 69m for under £50 and cut it to length of say 2 about 18m and 3 at 10m.
 
I'm referring to Gillingham Marina Tidal Basin which is where im considering keeping the boat for the next 3 months. Ive heard alot of talk about spring lines does this affect the length.

Plus another question is what is the easiest a swinging mooring or marina berth between pilings for a beginner.
 
Spring lines are not "springy" as in that they stretch, it is the nomenclature for a pair of lines one from the bows to a point ashore alongside the stern and one from the stern cleat to a point ashore alongside the bow. So they cross each other scissor like and each is to stop the vessel from surging either backward or forward. In fact, when moored alongside a pontoon, the springs are in effect the main mooring lines as their combined efforts hold the boat in position and prevent it from swing around too.

Your second question will get answers driven by personal opinions so my comments such be taken on that understanding. In many ways a swinging mooring is the simplest and therefore also the easiest to use. As the boat is only attached by the bows, it will swing according to the major imfluence at the time, be it wind or tide. This makes it easy to determin which is the greater influence - if the wind is not blowing straight over the bows, then the tide is stronger! This simple indicator makes planning your arrivals and departures more likely to succeed. Nearby boats of similar type will swing the same way, so can be used to indicate the correct angle of approach when returning to the mooring. The downsides? Well, there are many ways to secure to a swinging mooring and the single or doubled lines can be subject to rapid chafe, which is why I prefer a chain strop. Secondly, you need a dinghy and maybe outboard to access the mooring and may also be limited by the tidal range as to when you can get to it.

A mooring between piles is more complex to pick up and sometimes to depart from. It used to be the norm to run your own lines through the mooring ringsas you pass close by one piling, then slip the doubled line to allow you to move up to the second piling to rig the other line, then centre the boat by adjusting the lines. Many now rig a floating line between the fixed mooring lines with a pick-up buoy in the centre to allow a single pick-up to retriecve both fore and aft lines. If the mooring is shared with another boat, then springs will be used between the two to stop them ranging around independently and worrying each other, perhaps allowing the fenders to become dislodged and damage to occur. Sharing has the advantage that you can use the other boat like a jetty to land on and you can drape the floating line on his rail when leaving, so as to avoid getting it caught in your propellor or around the rudder or keel. You still need a dinghy, of course.

Rob.
 
thesaintlyone said:
I'm referring to Gillingham Marina Tidal Basin which is where im considering keeping the boat for the next 3 months. Ive heard alot of talk about spring lines does this affect the length.

Plus another question is what is the easiest a swinging mooring or marina berth between pilings for a beginner.
Click to expand...

At least Gillingham will have no tide running through it, although there will probably some eddies at times. With no finger pontoons it it be tricky if you are single handed picking up the lines or what ever on the piles . You will have to be on good terms with your neighbours as there will almost certainly be times when you will have to initially go alongside one or other of them.

There will be directions from which a strong wind will make things tricky although its pretty sheltered from what I remember.

Mulling over the possibility of moving to Gillingham tidal basin myself.

I have always had a swinging mooring so no fears about them. Get it wrong sometimes , but when its obviously not going to plan its easy enough to abort and go round in a circle for a second or third attempt. With a marina berth there's no escape route but OTOH provided you don't hit a neighbour or the pontoon too hard once you are there you are there!

The convenience of a marina berth is incalculable. With a swinging mooring faffing about in a small dinghy can be a pain....... Boarding from a dinghy is what's troubling me now esp as I capsized the thing a few years ago. Luckily a fine sunny day resulted in a pleasant , if unexpected, swim . It could have been a very unpleasant experience. Climbing back on board was only a gnat's short of impossible and lead to a fixed boarding ladder being fitted.

Cant comment on the mooring warps you will need. esp onto fixed piles in a tidal basin. I suggest you have a good look at how other people moor. Have a chat with one or two if possible
 
My advice would be to get decent sized lines, regardless of the fact they will be massively overrated. Larger lines are much more comfortable to pull on should you need to, also mitigates some the chafing issues.
 
Consider installing substantial cleats port & stbd for midship breastlines.
Mount the cleats foreward of but reachable from cockpit.
Midship breast lines to have spliced eyes which are semi permanently fastened to mid cleats & coiled ready for use.
Very useful for looping to a ladder or whatever when you come in to dock & will hold boat while you run permanent bow,stern & springs. They take most of the "panic" out of docking/un-docking,especially when singlehanded.

Another useful trick when picking up a mooring strop is to have a bow line long enough to reach from bow to stern.
Place spliced eye over bow cleat & bring bow line outside of stanchions,etc to the cockpit area.
Slide up alongside mooring until you can gaff the strop from safety of cockpit.
Slip bitter end of bow line thru eye of strop & then tie bitter end of bow line to a winch or whatever.
You are now moored,boat will drift back & strop will slide up bow line to the bow cleat.
You can now doddle up to the bow & make permanent arrangements at your leisure.
Great for single handing & for keeping crew from falling off bow whilst hanging out over rail to gaff strop,etc.

In general,there is no point in a person being right at the pointy end when docking. They should bring the bow line back to wider part of boat-the part that will be closer to dock-so that they can step ashore easily.
If the helmsman came in at such a sharp angle that the bow will hit,there is not much a person at bow can do except crush a foot or fall over.

Cheers/Len
 
Len Ingalls said:
In general,there is no point in a person being right at the pointy end when docking. They should bring the bow line back to wider part of boat-the part that will be closer to dock-so that they can step ashore easily.
If the helmsman came in at such a sharp angle that the bow will hit,there is not much a person at bow can do except crush a foot or fall over.

Cheers/Len
Click to expand...

Its the pointy end that will come into the pontoon in the tidal basin at Gillingham. No good stepping off the wide part ! :(

The difficult bit will be securing the blunt end to the piles

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...f2523e4d992b!8m2!3d51.386322!4d0.551438?hl=en
 
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PotatoNavigator said:
My advice would be to get decent sized lines, regardless of the fact they will be massively overrated. Larger lines are much more comfortable to pull on should you need to, also mitigates some the chafing issues.
Click to expand...


But only size up to the size of the cleats on the boat, especially if the boat only has bow and stern cleats as they will have to take two lines each.
 
LadyInBed said:
But only size up to the size of the cleats on the boat, especially if the boat only has bow and stern cleats as they will have to take two lines each.
Click to expand...

Who said it didn't have midships cleats? If it doesn't I would still have big lines and fit some, they're pretty useful. Without one you rely on the pontoon having one so you can rig springs, we're only 22', and quite often when we tie up there aren't three pontoon cleats available to us.
 
Len Ingalls said:
Consider installing substantial cleats port & stbd for midship breastlines.
Mount the cleats foreward of but reachable from cockpit.
Midship breast lines to have spliced eyes which are semi permanently fastened to mid cleats & coiled ready for use.
Very useful for looping to a ladder or whatever when you come in to dock & will hold boat while you run permanent bow,stern & springs. They take most of the "panic" out of docking/un-docking,especially when singlehanded.

Another useful trick when picking up a mooring strop is to have a bow line long enough to reach from bow to stern.
Place spliced eye over bow cleat & bring bow line outside of stanchions,etc to the cockpit area.
Slide up alongside mooring until you can gaff the strop from safety of cockpit.
Slip bitter end of bow line thru eye of strop & then tie bitter end of bow line to a winch or whatever.
You are now moored,boat will drift back & strop will slide up bow line to the bow cleat.
You can now doddle up to the bow & make permanent arrangements at your leisure.
Great for single handing & for keeping crew from falling off bow whilst hanging out over rail to gaff strop,etc.

In general,there is no point in a person being right at the pointy end when docking. They should bring the bow line back to wider part of boat-the part that will be closer to dock-so that they can step ashore easily.
If the helmsman came in at such a sharp angle that the bow will hit,there is not much a person at bow can do except crush a foot or fall over.

Cheers/Len
Click to expand...

That sounds like a neat trick singlehanded to a Mooring bouy was the one thing putting e off the option of swinging moorings.
 
I sailed Gladys single handed for a season or two... A trick for her was to come up to the mooring stern first, but this isn't an option with an outboard or prop a long way aft.. but that gave me the confidence and I eventually was able to place the bow on the buoy, and leg it up and moor up without a drama
 
Ah! The system of "boxes" with piles off a pontoon is common in the lowlands and Scandinavia. I've never done it myself, but I understand that the boat is gently motored between the piles, which have spiral prongs on top . Drop lines onto the spirals as you pass through and they can be snubbed and surged to bring the boat gently against the pontoon either bow-to or stern-to, your choice. Two lines to the pontoon complete the quota of lines.

Rob.
 
PotatoNavigator said:
Who said it didn't have midships cleats?
Click to expand...
Who said it did?
My 22 footer didn't and I'm guessing that not many do, unless retrofitted.
If it doesn't I would still have big lines and fit some, they're pretty useful. Without one you rely on the pontoon having one so you can rig springs, we're only 22', and quite often when we tie up there aren't three pontoon cleats available to us.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised, not many pontoons have cleats at 10ft spacings.
Are lines tied to a mid ship cleat (boat or pontoon) springs?
They are often used as such, but I prefer lines crossed from near bow to near stern.
 
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