What metal for diesel fittings or doesn’t it matter?

[john_morris_uk]

Assuming you mean the water cooled exhaust elbow then yes, it's fine. Regs state that the surface temperature needs to be below a certain limit in marine engines (hence why exhausts and manifolds are water cooled or have insulating lagging).

But as also mentioned, the felxible hose is really easy to route away if there is any cocern.

What regulations? I know of very few regulations that apply to a privately owned and run boat in the UK. Of course if it’s a commercial boat it’s a very different matter.

 

[IanCC]

Not so easy, perhaps, if tank stop tap close to exhaust ?

 

[LittleSister]

If the pipes go into the top of the tank the flow will stop as soon as the engine stops or the supply line is compromised by the fire.

I've never understood the logic of this claim in favour of top entry fuel pick up pipes. Surely if the breach of the supply line is below the level of the fuel in the tank it will continue to flow?

 

[R.Ems]

I've never understood the logic of this claim in favour of top entry fuel pick up pipes. Surely if the breach of the supply line is below the level of the fuel in the tank it will continue to flow?

Yes it will carry on syphoning out.
I have never understood top entry pipes anyway, full stop.

 

[Stemar]

Yes it will carry on syphoning out.
I have never understood top entry pipes anyway, full stop.

Me neither. My previous boat had the tank above the engine level, so bleeding after a filter change was a doddle. When it came time to change the filters on my current boat, with fuel lines coming out of the top of the tank, I had no idea what to do, so I fitted bulb pumps between the tanks and the filters. Presumably it can be done, as the engines had been like that for 20-odd years, but my poor little brain couldn't figure it out and I needed an immediate solution.

 

[Moodysailor]

What regulations? I know of very few regulations that apply to a privately owned and run boat in the UK. Of course if it’s a commercial boat it’s a very different matter.

The RCD has requirements for fire protection that encroach into engine design, additionally SOLAS has a maximum surface temperature limit ( I think 220 C).

The benefit to the leisure side is the easier installation (water cooled exhaust), higher performance (lower engine bay temps) and reduced noise so it becomes a simple decision for an engine manufacturer to design as much of this into the standard engine if possible.

 

[thinwater]

Yes it will carry on syphoning out.
I have never understood top entry pipes anyway, full stop.

I can't speak for the UK, but in the US there is also an anti-syphon valve fitted to the the draw at the top of the tank. Mandatory (for both commercial and recreational) on gas tanks, common on diesel tanks. I have seen a boat that was no so fitted burn to the waterline. I've seen a truck burn down because the line chafed in a position similar to post 22. If it had been top suction with anti-syphon valve, not problem.

You also assume the tank is higher than the engine. It very often not so.

So not full stop.

 

[R.Ems]

I can't speak for the UK, but in the US there is also an anti-syphon valve fitted to the the draw at the top of the tank. Mandatory (for both commercial and recreational) on gas tanks, common on diesel tanks. I have seen a boat that was no so fitted burn to the waterline. I've seen a truck burn down because the line chafed in a position similar to post 22. If it had been top suction with anti-syphon valve, not problem.

You also assume the tank is higher than the engine. It very often not so.

So not full stop.

That's interesting ..but you raise even more questions..
If an anti-syphon valve is fitted (which automatically breaks suction), how can the engine lift-pump suck fuel past it?

 

[john_morris_uk]

The RCD has requirements for fire protection that encroach into engine design, additionally SOLAS has a maximum surface temperature limit ( I think 220 C).

The benefit to the leisure side is the easier installation (water cooled exhaust), higher performance (lower engine bay temps) and reduced noise so it becomes a simple decision for an engine manufacturer to design as much of this into the standard engine if possible.

Only SOLAS V applies IIRC. ie

• Voyage / Passage Planning
• Radar Reflectors
• Danger Messages
• Lifesaving Signals
• Distress Messages
• Misuse of Distress
  
  RCD only applies to vessels built after 1998. (And only at the point of sale IIRC)

 

[Moodysailor]

Only SOLAS V applies IIRC. ie

• Voyage / Passage Planning
• Radar Reflectors
• Danger Messages
• Lifesaving Signals
• Distress Messages
• Misuse of Distress
  
  RCD only applies to vessels built after 1998. (And only at the point of sale IIRC)

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. The SOLAS requirements for engine surface temperature are required for any powerboat that is also used as e.g a rescue tender. There are also other elements of the regs that apply.

The RCD requirements (actualy the EU standards behind each section) have been in place for years and apply to all engines that are going for certification, irrespective of their end-use.

Remember that the engine makers need to comply with the rules in place at the design stage - there is also significant commercial pressure to reduce costs (direct and indirect) for the boat builders who are their main clients so design features that can allow the vessel builder a cheaper and easier installation will be preferred. There is also the economies of scale - it is easier for a manufacturer to produce many engines of one type and reduce variables than have too many different specs of the same engine, so features that make practical sense are often incorporated across the range(s).

I have worked for a couple of engine manufacturers over the years so have some first-hand knowledge. It would be easier and cheaper for the engine makers to use dry exhuast manifolds, so cost is not the main driver.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. The SOLAS requirements for engine surface temperature are required for any powerboat that is also used as e.g a rescue tender. There are also other elements of the regs that apply.

The RCD requirements (actualy the EU standards behind each section) have been in place for years and apply to all engines that are going for certification, irrespective of their end-use.

Remember that the engine makers need to comply with the rules in place at the design stage - there is also significant commercial pressure to reduce costs (direct and indirect) for the boat builders who are their main clients so design features that can allow the vessel builder a cheaper and easier installation will be preferred. There is also the economies of scale - it is easier for a manufacturer to produce many engines of one type and reduce variables than have too many different specs of the same engine, so features that make practical sense are often incorporated across the range(s).

I have worked for a couple of engine manufacturers over the years so have some first-hand knowledge. It would be easier and cheaper for the engine makers to use dry exhuast manifolds, so cost is not the main driver.

If you are referring to regulations for engine manufacturers then I understand your point. I thought you were referring to regulations that I had to comply with when installing the engine. As I understand it, so long as it’s a pleasure vessel of a small size and it’s not used for commercial purposes there aren’t any.

 

[Moodysailor]

If you are referring to regulations for engine manufacturers then I understand your point. I thought you were referring to regulations that I had to comply with when installing the engine. As I understand it, so long as it’s a pleasure vessel of a small size and it’s not used for commercial purposes there aren’t any.

Thanks for the clarification. You are correct that a private installer does not necessarily need to comply with the regs (but should as they are there for a reason).
A commercial installer or builder does need to comply - this could be a marine engineer who is replacing an engine, or someone building a new boat that will be sold. Once there is a commercial element then the regs apply. The code is also written to account for changes (called a 'major conversion') which is why there is a requirement for those in the trade to know the rules.

I used to have a lot of these discussions when I was in the trade, we used to work on the new side and also do repowers so it was fairly easy to keep up with the elements of the regs that applied to us. What was more difficult was getting this across to the customers when they were comparing quotes on paper alone, and not on the quality/scope of work. The SOLAS ones were harder as we didn't do so many of those, they have some odd ones that can cacth you out (such as anti-inversion mounts).

But yes, agreed it is much simpler for a private owner fitting something for their own use - the beauty of the leisure yachting industry is that it hasn't let too much red tape get in the way of tinkering with, and enjoying our own boats

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thanks for the clarification. You are correct that a private installer does not necessarily need to comply with the regs (but should as they are there for a reason).
A commercial installer or builder does need to comply - this could be a marine engineer who is replacing an engine, or someone building a new boat that will be sold. Once there is a commercial element then the regs apply. The code is also written to account for changes (called a 'major conversion') which is why there is a requirement for those in the trade to know the rules.

I used to have a lot of these discussions when I was in the trade, we used to work on the new side and also do repowers so it was fairly easy to keep up with the elements of the regs that applied to us. What was more difficult was getting this across to the customers when they were comparing quotes on paper alone, and not on the quality/scope of work. The SOLAS ones were harder as we didn't do so many of those, they have some odd ones that can cacth you out (such as anti-inversion mounts).

But yes, agreed it is much simpler for a private owner fitting something for their own use - the beauty of the leisure yachting industry is that it hasn't let too much red tape get in the way of tinkering with, and enjoying our own boats

You make some good points and in reality I’m going to probably comply with all regulations as closely as possible. As you say they are there for a reason. As it happens I’m about to phone for quotes for marine grade fuel hose to be made up with proper crimped on fittings as the last thing I need is fuel leaking everywhere within the engine bay or, if God forbid, there were to be a fire, the hoses were to melt instantly. I know that they’ll go eventually in a hot fire, but I’d like to think you had a few minutes to get your act together and evacuate the boat and grab what you can. Hence proper fuel hose and not just any old bit of rubber or plastic pipe. The fuel feed and return pipes will also be clipped and kept well away from heat sources.