ChartScrubba
Well-Known Member
Or do you just mean old and knackered?
What makes a Classic - Classic
- Thread starter ChartScrubba
- Start date
Porthandbuoy
Well-Known Member
No. Just created by craftsmen and maintained with dedication. Not popped out of a jelly mould by some adolescent on a youth training scheme.
And before those with GRP classics leap down my throat, there are several GRP yachts created by craftsmen and maintained with dedication. Not popped out of a jelly mould by some adolescent on a youth training scheme.
And before those with GRP classics leap down my throat, there are several GRP yachts created by craftsmen and maintained with dedication. Not popped out of a jelly mould by some adolescent on a youth training scheme.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
It gets asked a lot, this question.
No good answers yet.
I reckon it must involve the regard in which the craft was held when it was new.
If people thought it was a beauty, and leader in it's class, a real gem, then as an old lady it must be a Classic.
The parrallel can be drawn with cars. An E-Type, a Mini Cooper S, a Lagonda with a hand-built cabrio body, an MGTD, A Triumph 1800 Roadster, a Rover 3 Litre. Many cars have a long history of being revered and sought after, or just plain held in esteem and are Classics now.
An A40 Farina, a Morris 1000, a Ford Cortina?
Certainly not Classics.
No good answers yet.
I reckon it must involve the regard in which the craft was held when it was new.
If people thought it was a beauty, and leader in it's class, a real gem, then as an old lady it must be a Classic.
The parrallel can be drawn with cars. An E-Type, a Mini Cooper S, a Lagonda with a hand-built cabrio body, an MGTD, A Triumph 1800 Roadster, a Rover 3 Litre. Many cars have a long history of being revered and sought after, or just plain held in esteem and are Classics now.
An A40 Farina, a Morris 1000, a Ford Cortina?
Certainly not Classics.
dbewick
Member
Just to complicate matters...
Run-of-the mill Cortina: Absolutely Not
Lotus Cortina (white with the olive green stripe) : Yes!
Like the man said - it's all in the eye of the beholder.
Run-of-the mill Cortina: Absolutely Not
Lotus Cortina (white with the olive green stripe) : Yes!
Like the man said - it's all in the eye of the beholder.
Victorious
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I reckon it must involve the regard in which the craft was held when it was new.
If people thought it was a beauty, and leader in it's class, a real gem, then as an old lady it must be a Classic.
The parrallel can be drawn with cars. An E-Type, a Mini Cooper S, a Lagonda with a hand-built cabrio body, an MGTD, A Triumph 1800 Roadster, a Rover 3 Litre. Many cars have a long history of being revered and sought after, or just plain held in esteem and are Classics now.
An A40 Farina, a Morris 1000, a Ford Cortina?
Certainly not Classics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Victorious was built.. down to a price..nailed together . as a workboat...With an expected lifespan of only a decade or two... one of many.... No "outstanding" workmanship....Very rough indeed if compared to an A40..... is she not a classic?
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I reckon it must involve the regard in which the craft was held when it was new.
If people thought it was a beauty, and leader in it's class, a real gem, then as an old lady it must be a Classic.
The parrallel can be drawn with cars. An E-Type, a Mini Cooper S, a Lagonda with a hand-built cabrio body, an MGTD, A Triumph 1800 Roadster, a Rover 3 Litre. Many cars have a long history of being revered and sought after, or just plain held in esteem and are Classics now.
An A40 Farina, a Morris 1000, a Ford Cortina?
Certainly not Classics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Victorious was built.. down to a price..nailed together . as a workboat...With an expected lifespan of only a decade or two... one of many.... No "outstanding" workmanship....Very rough indeed if compared to an A40..... is she not a classic?
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
mclark
Well-Known Member
I think te word 'classic' is greatly over used and as has been said, almost impossible to define.
For my part I have no idea whether White Heather justifies the title 'Classic Boat' or not, I dont think I have ever used it.
To me White Heather is just my boat, my old boat, a member of my family, my occasional home, my place of tranquility, my source of pride and satisfaction and I am her current keeper, one of a long line so far and I hope, unless I make a big cock up, part of a line that will extend well into the future.
To me this phrase is more a marketing type phrase - NOW I have set the cat amongst the pigeons!!!
Mike
For my part I have no idea whether White Heather justifies the title 'Classic Boat' or not, I dont think I have ever used it.
To me White Heather is just my boat, my old boat, a member of my family, my occasional home, my place of tranquility, my source of pride and satisfaction and I am her current keeper, one of a long line so far and I hope, unless I make a big cock up, part of a line that will extend well into the future.
To me this phrase is more a marketing type phrase - NOW I have set the cat amongst the pigeons!!!
Mike
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Lotus Cortina qualifies "leader in it's class, a real gem,"
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Victorious is a beautifully restored example of a work boat. I think you've done a fantastic job.
But I'm not convinced she is a Classic.
I've restored an old Heron dinghy (50 this year). It's not a classic. It's a nicely restored Heron dinghy.
But I'm not convinced she is a Classic.
I've restored an old Heron dinghy (50 this year). It's not a classic. It's a nicely restored Heron dinghy.
Mirelle
N/A
Nice Old Boats.
I have a Nice Old Boat.
And I am more than happy with that.
I have a Nice Old Boat.
And I am more than happy with that.
Peterduck
Well-Known Member
Re: Nice Old Boats.
Snap, Mirelle!
Peter.
Snap, Mirelle!
Peter.
old_salt
Well-Known Member
Well I have a 1985 Audi Quattro She's come of age 21 years old and I consider her to be of a "Very Classic Marque".
Over 145000 mls and she will still blow the arse off most.
Got into a naughty habit in the early days only over took any one on corners and still do it on the odd occasion. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Over 145000 mls and she will still blow the arse off most.
Got into a naughty habit in the early days only over took any one on corners and still do it on the odd occasion. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Kristal
Well-Known Member
If she were a road vehicle...
I've heard tell of two projects to build copies of my boat in the last two years. Does that make her a classic?
I think she's something akin to an MGA - small, quick for her size and age, a bit uncomfortable, and not guaranteed to keep the rain out all the time, but pretty and quite unique.
Anybody else think of any nice car analogies? For instance, I've been up close to Mirelle a few times, and would liken her a little to a pre-war Bentley - hand-built, solid, weighty, dependable and not something to get in front of whilst travelling at speed... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I've heard tell of two projects to build copies of my boat in the last two years. Does that make her a classic?
I think she's something akin to an MGA - small, quick for her size and age, a bit uncomfortable, and not guaranteed to keep the rain out all the time, but pretty and quite unique.
Anybody else think of any nice car analogies? For instance, I've been up close to Mirelle a few times, and would liken her a little to a pre-war Bentley - hand-built, solid, weighty, dependable and not something to get in front of whilst travelling at speed... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Mukes
Well-Known Member
I think there is a difference between a Classic and something of historical importance. Extending the car analogy - as my knowledge with cars is far more extensive than that of boats - In my opinion, the MK1 Lotus Cortina is/was an important car - (for reasons I will not bore a boating forum with) however I would still consider a normal MK1 Cortina to be a Classic. The difference is I think is the MK1 Lotus Cortina was important from the outset and has, as with the normal MK1 Cortina, become a classic with time. The former is an important classic and as such commands a far higher value than the latter which has just, with time, passed a subjective milestone which gives classic status. (All in my opinion of course.)
Mirelle
N/A
Re: If she were a road vehicle...
Funnily enough, when launched, in August 1937, she cost exactly the same as a 4 1/4 litre Park Ward Derby Bentley.
A tale is told of her first owner, Philip Allen, by Dick Larkman, who served his time at her builders, Whisstocks.
"We thought he was quite well off, but when his Bentley wouldn't start, and a Rolls-Royce arrived, with a chauffeur, to pick him up, we were sure!"
However, since Dick is not yet a centenarian I believe that this tale relates to a later period, when Philip had either "Corista" (26 ton gaff cutter built for him by Whisstocks) or "Tallulah" (16 ton bermuda yawl built for him by Whisstocks)!
The other good Philip story (which he confirmed) was that he went to see William Blake with a roll of drawings under his arm for "Mirelle", he did the same with Jack Jones for "Corista" but when he got round to "Tallulah" he cut out the middle man and just gave Claude Whisstock his drawings, not bothering to have them checked first.
"Mirelle" is based on WA Robinson's "Svaap" (a John Alden transom stern bermuda ketch, turned into a counter sterned gaff cutter!) but "Corista" was not based on "Dyarchy" - the similarity was coincidence.
Funnily enough, when launched, in August 1937, she cost exactly the same as a 4 1/4 litre Park Ward Derby Bentley.
A tale is told of her first owner, Philip Allen, by Dick Larkman, who served his time at her builders, Whisstocks.
"We thought he was quite well off, but when his Bentley wouldn't start, and a Rolls-Royce arrived, with a chauffeur, to pick him up, we were sure!"
However, since Dick is not yet a centenarian I believe that this tale relates to a later period, when Philip had either "Corista" (26 ton gaff cutter built for him by Whisstocks) or "Tallulah" (16 ton bermuda yawl built for him by Whisstocks)!
The other good Philip story (which he confirmed) was that he went to see William Blake with a roll of drawings under his arm for "Mirelle", he did the same with Jack Jones for "Corista" but when he got round to "Tallulah" he cut out the middle man and just gave Claude Whisstock his drawings, not bothering to have them checked first.
"Mirelle" is based on WA Robinson's "Svaap" (a John Alden transom stern bermuda ketch, turned into a counter sterned gaff cutter!) but "Corista" was not based on "Dyarchy" - the similarity was coincidence.
Mirelle
N/A
Re: If she were a road vehicle...
MGA? 1927? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Surely more of a Chain Gang Frazer Nash! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
MGA? 1927? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Surely more of a Chain Gang Frazer Nash! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
contessa26
Well-Known Member
Re: If she were a road vehicle...
You mentioned ‘Svaap’? Is that the ‘Svaap’ that circumnavigated in the late 1920’s (with a transom stern!)? The first boat to do so with a two-man crew? What a lovely boat…
You mentioned ‘Svaap’? Is that the ‘Svaap’ that circumnavigated in the late 1920’s (with a transom stern!)? The first boat to do so with a two-man crew? What a lovely boat…
Mirelle
N/A
Re: If she were a road vehicle...
Yes.
Philip told me so himself. He was building the boat to go to the West Indies, Robinson's book had just been published and so he said, "Why re-invent the wheel?"
The differences in the hull are very slight - Blake rounded up the forefoot to make her self-steer better, in accordance with the metacentric shelf theory, and she gained a very elegant counter, which is definitely an improvement, as it never slams and adds bouyancy aft, besides looking good. Other than that, they are practically the same boat, and you can put one lines plan on top of the other. But seeing the boat in the water with bowsprit, deadeyes and lanyards and so on, she looks so "English" that one would hardly credit it.
Yes.
Philip told me so himself. He was building the boat to go to the West Indies, Robinson's book had just been published and so he said, "Why re-invent the wheel?"
The differences in the hull are very slight - Blake rounded up the forefoot to make her self-steer better, in accordance with the metacentric shelf theory, and she gained a very elegant counter, which is definitely an improvement, as it never slams and adds bouyancy aft, besides looking good. Other than that, they are practically the same boat, and you can put one lines plan on top of the other. But seeing the boat in the water with bowsprit, deadeyes and lanyards and so on, she looks so "English" that one would hardly credit it.
tillergirl
Well-Known Member
Re: If she were a road vehicle...
I worked with a guy in the late 60's who had an MGA. It didn't matter about the rain getting in it seemed to me because it was very difficult to keep on the road when it rained. Whilst wonderful in many ways, it cured me of old sports car desires. Quite the contrary happened to me with boats but then I find the 40 yr old TG so much more comfortable and reliable in nasty stuff than the light plastic thing we chartered in the Ionian Sea. For the first time I experienced a serious feeling of not being in control. At the sake of being shouted down, I don't really like this is it classic or not debate, though it can be interesting or amusing at times. I rather like thinking of something as 'epochal' a word used by motoring journalist and author Doug Nye to describe vehicles that made a serious contribution to where we are today, or 'lovely' since they grace us. 'Classic' I'm afraid for me conjures up the picture of an investor and a market place.
I worked with a guy in the late 60's who had an MGA. It didn't matter about the rain getting in it seemed to me because it was very difficult to keep on the road when it rained. Whilst wonderful in many ways, it cured me of old sports car desires. Quite the contrary happened to me with boats but then I find the 40 yr old TG so much more comfortable and reliable in nasty stuff than the light plastic thing we chartered in the Ionian Sea. For the first time I experienced a serious feeling of not being in control. At the sake of being shouted down, I don't really like this is it classic or not debate, though it can be interesting or amusing at times. I rather like thinking of something as 'epochal' a word used by motoring journalist and author Doug Nye to describe vehicles that made a serious contribution to where we are today, or 'lovely' since they grace us. 'Classic' I'm afraid for me conjures up the picture of an investor and a market place.
contessa26
Well-Known Member
Re: If she were a road vehicle...
Thanks for the interesting info; and ‘Mirelle’ is a lovely vessel. And as you say, it’s an interesting subject, spotting the differences and detailing of designs from either side of the Atlantic. Or even – thinking a boat is from this side of the Atlantic, when she’s actually an ‘Alden’… Or an O Stephens.
I love an ‘Alden’ – look at ‘Malabar XIII’…
I know nothing whatsover about boats. But when I think of Alden, I think mainly of the later post-war John G. Alden & Co, Inc designs – ie ‘Minots Light’, ‘Margaree’, the Challenger class… Obviously I’ve been reading too much of Arthur Beiser’s book ‘The Proper Yacht’…!
Thanks for the interesting info; and ‘Mirelle’ is a lovely vessel. And as you say, it’s an interesting subject, spotting the differences and detailing of designs from either side of the Atlantic. Or even – thinking a boat is from this side of the Atlantic, when she’s actually an ‘Alden’… Or an O Stephens.
I love an ‘Alden’ – look at ‘Malabar XIII’…
I know nothing whatsover about boats. But when I think of Alden, I think mainly of the later post-war John G. Alden & Co, Inc designs – ie ‘Minots Light’, ‘Margaree’, the Challenger class… Obviously I’ve been reading too much of Arthur Beiser’s book ‘The Proper Yacht’…!
tazzle
Well-Known Member
Looking at the replies above, the criteria that seem to be emerging are:
1. Designed by a 'named' designer
2. More than 30 years old
3. Still draws admiring looks
My own humble vessel only meets one of these criteria (Bill Waight) and is therefore just an old boat and not a classic.
1. Designed by a 'named' designer
2. More than 30 years old
3. Still draws admiring looks
My own humble vessel only meets one of these criteria (Bill Waight) and is therefore just an old boat and not a classic.
