What length spinnaker sheets and guys?

Poey50

Poey50

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I'm speccing spinnaker gear for our Sadler 32 (masthead rig) with separate sheets and guys. I've seen various lengths quoted for these - anything between 1.25 x overall length of boat up to x 2.5.

The spinnaker would only be used for cruising and mostly when shorthanded.

What lengths do you recommend and why?
 
You want to be able to dump the sheet on a broad reach and get a full flap in the spinnaker without luffing up while keeping a decent tail in the boat for recovery. Thats the way I see it.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
You want to be able to dump the sheet on a broad reach and get a full flap in the spinnaker without luffing up while keeping a decent tail in the boat for recovery. Thats the way I see it.
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Consider dumping the sheet and letting it run clear of the boat. A flapping spinnaker might cause its sheet to get frightfully tangled in god knows what. I have found recovering the free sheet, after recovery from the unstable state, to be not that hard.
 
It depends on the length of the pole among other things.
Also how you hoist.
If you always put the turtle at the bow, you can probably live with the guy being 1.25 x LOA, but that would be short for hoisting from a turtle under the genoa.
Also if you want to drop the kite under the boom without letting the guy go, the guy needs to be long.
And how does the guy run to the winch etc?
 
Another consideration....Poey50 doesn't mention an asymmetric. How many people use the same sheets for their gennakers as their spinnakers? In the thread I started on scuttlebutt about shackles people were suggesting they wouldn't want shackles on something that might flog. OTOH most people I've sailed with who have asymmetric use metal shackles and given the horrendous cost of rope, doubling up on functionality makes sense.

I don't actually *have* a gennaker but I'm thinking about it and given that I'd have longer sheets for a gennaker that's making me consider getting my spinnaker sheets (currently spec-ed at 1.5x length) longer.
 
On my little boat I like to keep the option of getting the spin down if things get boisterous by pulling on the sheet from the cockpit so pulling all the spin and opposite sheets/guys right around the forestay and shove the spin into the cabin. If you have stopper knots in the sheets and guys this means that a sheet or guy has to be long enough to pass from the sheave block for either sheet or guy around the forestay and back into the cabin. So yes for the sheet 2x boat length for the guy somewhat less going from a sheave further forward. long is good. good luck olewill
 
William_H said:
On my little boat I like to keep the option of getting the spin down if things get boisterous by pulling on the sheet from the cockpit so pulling all the spin and opposite sheets/guys right around the forestay and shove the spin into the cabin. If you have stopper knots in the sheets and guys this means that a sheet or guy has to be long enough to pass from the sheave block for either sheet or guy around the forestay and back into the cabin. So yes for the sheet 2x boat length for the guy somewhat less going from a sheave further forward. long is good. good luck olewill
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I thought stopper knots on spinnaker sheets was a big no no?
 
BobPrell said:
That is my practice.
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What is your practice, putting stopper knots in the end of the sheet, or leaving them out?

Buy the way, after a massive dump I sheet in and sail on, letting the sheet fly is bad seamanship and can cause other issues, with end of the sheet still on board you still have the ability to control. I have never experienced a foul up with a sheet that is retained (no stopped knot) but I have experienced SNAFUs with flying sheets whipping in the wind.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Buy the way, after a massive dump I sheet in and sail on, letting the sheet fly is bad seamanship and can cause other issues, with end of the sheet still on board you still have the ability to control. I have never experienced a foul up with a sheet that is retained (no stopped knot) but I have experienced SNAFUs with flying sheets whipping in the wind.
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I agree --I tend to make sure I pump really hard & make sure there are no blockages in the pipe for the next user. If there is a build up of retained sheets they can cause problems. I certainly do not want them whipping in the wind
 
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Poey50 said:
Thanks all. I've settled on x2 LOA.
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Best solution, you can pop the guy and save re-running it back to the bow or if that is not viable then hauling it all the way back and under the boom should still leave a tail in the cockpit for easy restoring to position
 
The trick with stopper knots on spin sheet ends is to do a figure 8 stopper knot but don't pull the tail through such that you have like a bow. Pulling the tail will unravel the stopper knot. (even under load) A good compromise that will stop the sheet running away but still able to let the sheet go completely in an emergency. That emergency should be confined to man overboard.
Releasing sheets and guys in a broach that lays the boat down is just a recipe for having the spin blow upwards and down wind like a parachute pulling the mast top down. (and holding it down)
When running shy even if running square and you broach you end up shy ease the sheet a little but just hang on and having dumped the main sail sheet wait till she rises again and hope to turn down wind so back up to speed and nearer boat flat. Of course the real trick is to turn down wind before she leans over so far the rudder has no control. (and dumping main early)
As a matter of interest I fly a spin (shy) a lot on the little boat. I did improve the resistance to the broach to a huge degree by increasing the depth, area and balance of the rudder. Gives me a better chance of turning down wind at the beginnings of being over powered in a gust. good fun olewill
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
What is your practice, putting stopper knots in the end of the sheet, or leaving them out?

Buy the way, after a massive dump I sheet in and sail on, letting the sheet fly is bad seamanship and can cause other issues, with end of the sheet still on board you still have the ability to control. I have never experienced a foul up with a sheet that is retained (no stopped knot) but I have experienced SNAFUs with flying sheets whipping in the wind.
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My apology.
I cringe sometimes when I look at what I have typed and it makes no sense to me, let alone to anyone else.
I have decided, after advice and consideration, not to put stopper knots in spinnaker sheets.
I may change my practice, if persuaded.
Olewill has me wavering, his advice has always seemed sensible to me.
 
William_H said:
That emergency should be confined to man overboard.

Just about the worse time toloose control of the spinnaker sheets. Just imagine having to do a number of turns & having a flogging uncontrolled spinnaker go round the mast & the sheets go into the water &round the prop

When running shy even if running square and you broach you end up shy ease the sheet a little but just hang on and having dumped the main sail sheet wait till she rises again and hope to turn down wind so back up to speed and nearer boat flat. Of course the real trick is to turn down wind before she leans over so far the rudder has no control. (and dumping main early)
One should also release the vang - something which many do not do early enough this would assist in easing a lot of the broach effect
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You are right the concept of letting a spin drop in Man Overboard scenario would be disastrous unless the halyard is also allowed to run through. In other words you sacrifice the spinacker the sheets and halyard perhaps to be picked up later or lost.
Yes of course also the vang should be released in an impending broach/round up.
Re BobPrell thank you for the kind comments however I cringe a bit at the thought people would take what I say as good. Perhaps just suggesting alternatives to try which may seem like a good idea. It reckon it has taken me years to master spin work or perhaps I only think I (we including the crew) have mastered the mad woman as I call her. (spin that is) olewill
 
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